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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:47 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Lancaster PA
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Hey guys,
I'm back after a few years of not wrenching on my 69 dart due to being in college.
But the good news is that now I have a big boy job so I have the money to start turning my first car I got when I was 15 into my dream car.

Long story short I want to build a turbo EFI motor. I want to make a parts list, and from there price it then build it but I want to have a complete plan laid out ahead of time. I've done a lot of research but I've never built a slant or a turbo motor (just old chevy 350s) so any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.

The goal is to have a fun weekend/drag car. I want to shoot for 450whp, however I understand that is a lofty and costly goal especially with limited experience.
My first question is what amount of boost should I aim for to achieve this goal? I understand that in theory 15psi is double atmospheric pressure and will then double power input. Obviously this doesn't always pan out in the real world but that would mean if I run 15 psi I need to build a motor that is roughly 225whp. So Id call it 250hp to be safe. Would this be realistic or would i need more like 20-25psi especially since making a stock compression slant have that much power is so difficult?

So in building the motor I know ill need a lot of head work such as porting and large valves. I'll need a decent sized cam. I have heard many conflicting theories on the cam selection, but I know that I would like a fairly large cam for this application since I'm not super concerned with its street manners. Is there anything else in the valvetrain I should worry about?

For the bottom end I would like as much strength as possible so I would like to keep the stock forged crank and add forged rods and pistons as well as keep the CR around 8:1. I found a kit a few years ago with the rods and pistons but again any suggestions are appreciated.

So for the turbo I want a quick spool up time but also it needs to be large enough to support my power goals. I've searched around and found some that support 500whp from big name manufacturers but wondered if there were any specific ones I should look out for.

The fuel injection component is the most foreign to me, but in my mind it is a necessity for this application. I've seen some guys on here do multi port injection but that may get very involved or complicated so I was wondering if the holley sniper would be a better route? the 2 BBL version is spec'd to support 650hp but i've heard that the "self-Tuning" claim is a far fetch.

Any help would be appreciated

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1969 dart 2 door 2bbl 225


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 15785
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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I have a turbo+EFI 68 Dart that I have been developing since I was 16 (1988). EFI went on in 2003 and the turbo in 2011. I love this car and have had a ton of fun driving it, and building/testing it. I imagine I will do this for another 20 yrs or more...

It would be good to do a reality check first on your goals. My first questions/comments:

1) How fast do you really want to go? 450 whp is not much below the world record for a 225 engine (boosted, N2O, or whatever) and those engines have been built by people with amazing skills and many years and $$ of development. You can run 10s or better in your car (light) with that power level. I have run 12.70s in my Dart (but mostly low 13s in recent years) and the car has something like 300 whp on 12-14 psi boost (60 mm turbonetics turbo). I have not spent tons of $$ per year, but have spent decades developing and driving it. I drive it everywhere and it gets good MPG and has good road manners.

2) What is your budget (maybe in X thousands of $ per year) and how long do you want to spend developing, testing, failing, and making progress?

3) Maybe tell us more about what are your "fun" or "practical" goals? Will this mostly be a street car that you will race once/yr, or 10X/yr, or never on a track? What kind of racing/events might you do (drag, autoX, road course)? Do you care about MPG or cruising on the hwy? Will you trailer it to events or drive it everywhere?

Modern cars are just so far beyond the technology of our beloved 60s A-bodies that it is frankly up to you to have fun without trying to beat late model "performance" cars (in almost any category). I say this will a little bit of a heavy heart, but I must acknowledge it is true. When I started in the 80s, most new cars were crap, so I could outperform a lotta cars without many mods, but this is 35 yrs later...

The main reasons I do this are to do something unique, be a creative blacksmith and designer my own stuff, and sometimes make people crane their necks and say "What the heck is that?"

Some food for thought, anyway!

Slant on,
Lou

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"You mean you still have a Slant 6 in that thing?"


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:45 pm 
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3 Deuce Webber
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:38 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Lancaster PA
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Hey I figured my numbers would be on the high side. And I would like to run 12s maybe 11s thatd be great. I just want a fun car and I’d wanna race it a few times a year (maybe 5 or so) and take it to cruises and car shows. Honestly I have no budget. No I’m not rich but if it takes a few more bucks I’ll just save longer. I’d say I was thinking in the $10k range for the motor. The trans rear and suspension will probably cost me that much as well.

I would like to travel and I have a diesel truck so I could trailer it to farther events but I’d like to be able to drive it to local events. And probably the only racing would be drag racing.

I plan on owning this car for the rest of my life so as time goes on I would like to continue to upgrade and develop it further

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1969 dart 2 door 2bbl 225


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 1:57 pm
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Location: Everett, WA
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Go over to forabodiesonly.com and read posts by Bill Deedmen(spelling) in the slant and turbo sections. Sadly he is no longer with us, but he was quite an advocate for the turboed \6 as compared to V8 swaps. I have no idea if he actually got his car down the track. But his stuff is worth the read.

He references other cars that used "stock engines" and a lot of boost to make good quarter mile times. Some of those cars can be found on YouTube.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 15785
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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OK, that gives me/us a better idea of what you are trying to achieve. $10k and some time/effort, and ~ low 12s in a street/strip car are doable. Mine could be much faster, but I never trailer it and often race 500-3000 miles from home, so the demands are different. I will think about a parts list... You should check out gillwelding.com for their turbo manifold, EFI parts/kits, etc.

Welcome to the whoosh...

Lou

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"You mean you still have a Slant 6 in that thing?"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:54 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 2518
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
I'm watching threads such as this one, as I'm considering adding a turbo to my most recent /6 build .. I recently found an old magazine article someone was selling on ebay (printed in early 70s, don't have it in front of me for exact date) about putting a home brew junkyard sourced turbo setup onto a /6 from a Corvair of all things ..
In my case I am not looking for huge boost numbers, but my purpose is different from yours.... Just want to wake up a "a small engine in a truck"....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2002 12:06 pm
Posts: 8007
Location: Silver Springs, Fl.
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volaredon wrote:
I'm watching threads such as this one, as I'm considering adding a turbo to my most recent /6 build .. I recently found an old magazine article someone was selling on ebay (printed in early 70s, don't have it in front of me for exact date) about putting a home brew junkyard sourced turbo setup onto a /6 from a Corvair of all things ..

That is what I did back in 1979. Put a Corvair turbo on a 170 slant. Corvair was 168 cubes, so the turbo was a perfect match. Also the Corvair limited boost to about 7lbs, by using a small carter 1 bbl side draft carb, and a predetermined back pressure in the exhaust system. I tried several different carb setups, and the one that worked best (for me) was a 500 Holley 2 bbl. Also used a low restriction exhaust on the street, and open pipe at the track. Would get about 11-12 lbs boost with the open exhaust. Best was 13.4 at 104mph. in my 65 Valiant 2drsdn. Biggest problem was detonation. Back then there was no such thing as a boost timing master, or wide band exhaust sensors. Couldn't hear the detonation, due to the turbo "whine", so tuning was a pain, and I broke a few parts.
PS: It was a draw thru system.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 225 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 7712
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Welcome back Casey! You really should come over to Mason Dixon and visit with us in May. :D :D Good luck with the car!

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
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Spare a few moments while dreaming up the ultimate Go to think about the Steer and Stop and Survive and stuff; see this thread.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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