Slant *        6        Forum
Home Home Home
The Place to Go for Slant Six Info!
Click here to help support the Slant Six Forum!
It is currently Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:25 am

All times are UTC-07:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:49 pm 
Offline
1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:12 am
Posts: 2
Location: Denver
Car Model:
Image

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil of the LeMons Supreme Court here. Not long ago, I challenged LeMons racers to build a Slant Six-powered BMW 325 (the E30 aka mid-80s 3 Series is one of the most common LeMons cars and E30 ennui was setting in). Sure enough, an E30 aficionado went ahead and built one, complete with pushbutton shifter.

Image
We all had high hopes for Car 225 (the one with the green air filter on the hood in the photo above) at last weekend's 'Shine Country Classic at CMP in Kershaw, South Carolina, but engine reliability issues held the car back and it made only 124 laps (the winner had 768). #225 wasn't especially quick, but the combination of Slant Six torque and E30 suspension/brakes could be a contending formula at the next race... if Team Geza's Squirrel Mafia can make the engine hold together all weekend.

There have been 51 24 Hours of LeMons races, and this was the first-ever Slant Six-powered car we've seen (all the teams running rear-drive Chrysler products have gone with LA-series V8s so far). I've learned that an engine's street and/or dragstrip reliability doesn't mean anything when it comes to the kind of abuse that an all-weekend-long road race dishes out; the supposedly bulletproof small-block Chevrolet, Toyota R, and Honda B engines have all proven to be disastrously unreliable in our races. Perhaps the Slant Six isn't well-suited to this kind of punishment... but I suspect otherwise.

Geza's Squirrel Mafia went through two engines before and during the race. The first was a junkyard 225 that developed a lethal-sounding rod knock putting the car onto the trailer. The second was an allegedly 30,000-mile rebuilt 225 "borrowed" from a team member's father's Dart. This engine did OK, but ran hotter and hotter and finally ate the cam bearings. The A904 transmission meant that an easy-to-find truck Slant Six wasn't going to bolt in, and anyway most junkyards in South Carolina are closed on Sundays.

I have authorized the team a residual value (the amount they can spend and not violate our crapcan-budget rules) of $6, which means they can spend $494 getting an engine for the next race. I want to see this car on the track all weekend and keeping up with the M20-powered E30s at the next Southern Region race. What should they do (within that budget) to make a Slant Six survive a full-throttle, high-temperature, oil-sloshing-around nightmare weekend at Charlotte Motor Speedway?


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:51 pm 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
It's tough to keep oil at the pickup tube with a car that can brake and turn like an E30. I had oil system trouble with my 225 powered road racing '66 Dart. If there is room in the chassis make the pan deeper, extend the pickup tube, add baffles and kickouts on the sides. Be aware that the oil pump drive gear is a weak spot in the oil system. High RPM and/or high volume pumps frequently take the teeth off the pump gear and damage the driving gear on the cam. Doc (Doug Dutra) sells case hardened oil pump gears as the gears on new replacement pumps are soft.

Take a look at Doc's engine block and oil pump modifications to improve oil flow here: http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... tem#189701

Any slant six will bolt to the push-button 904, but the '68 and newer engines have a larger recess in the crank to support the torque converter than the older engine. Doc has a bushing available so the torque converter is properly supported. It wouldn't do to fix the engine and then trash the transmission.

BTW, not every Chrysler product in LeMons always ran a small block. I wheeled the Team Size Matters Fury around Reno-Fernley in 2009 when it had a 440.

_________________
Joshua


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:12 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 16505
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Car Model:
Yep, deeper and laterally extended and baffled oilpan is key, and careful pickup placement. I have put some serious abuse on Slants on road courses in my '64 Dart and '66 Valiant with one engine blow in about 20-30 track weekends, ~1000 1/4 mile passes, and 60k hard street miles.

I am aware of this car, and wish I could help more. I don't see a fundamental problem with this kind of racing environment. I would put a simple Holley 500 2bbl on it on an Offy intake, or 2nd choice would be Holley 350 on a stock 2bbl intake. 1bbl or BBD 2bbl will not source enough fuel or air...

I would use an old stock (original) oil pump. I've never had trouble with those and they are CHEAP.

Sounds like fun!

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:32 pm 
Offline
1 BBL (New)

Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:12 am
Posts: 2
Location: Denver
Car Model:
Joshua Skinner wrote:
BTW, not every Chrysler product in LeMons always ran a small block. I wheeled the Team Size Matters Fury around Reno-Fernley in 2009 when it had a 440.


That's right, the Size Matters car, which I believe ran the Fernley race badged as a Fiat, went from a small-block to a 440. This video, shot from the 302-powered Mustard Yellow Volvo Doing 45 In The Fast Lane, shows the Fury in action at Reno-Fernley.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:09 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 16505
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Car Model:
Sounds like fun. Wonder if that team would be interested in another driver/pit member...?

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:31 am 
Offline
SL6 Racer & Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:42 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Cox’s Creek, KY
Car Model: More cars than sense...
Hey Frank! I found your green engine that the tornado took back in April! :shock: You can quit looking in that wheat field, it's in a BMW all the way over in South Carolina! :shock:

Cool ride! 8) Way to represent! :D

_________________
Rob

I’m Mater
The Kentucky Poser

Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:53 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24248
Location: North America
Car Model:
Hi, MM.

Neat stuff, but you write:

Quote:
The A904 transmission meant that an easy-to-find truck Slant Six wasn't going to bolt in


Where did this notion come from? It's not correct. The bellhousing pattern is the same on all slant-6 engines. If you use a '68 or later engine in front of a '67 or earlier automatic transmission (such as the '60-'64 pushbutton unit it sounds like you're running) you need a 1/8" annular adaptor ring to go between the nose of the torque converter and the counterbore of the crankshaft. See here. And when we swap later (or truck) engines into earlier cars, we use the oil pan and pickup from the earlier engine for fitment compatibility in the earlier cars; the same will probably be necessary in this E30 installation. Check, though; if you have (or can make) space to use a bigger truck-spec oil pan, that may be a better basis for the modified oil pan that will be needed to keep the pickup tube submerged. Another idea might be to adapt a swinging oil pickup from who-knows-what.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:08 am 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: Portland-ish
Car Model: Fiat 500e
Murilee Martin wrote:
Joshua Skinner wrote:
BTW, not every Chrysler product in LeMons always ran a small block. I wheeled the Team Size Matters Fury around Reno-Fernley in 2009 when it had a 440.


That's right, the Size Matters car, which I believe ran the Fernley race badged as a Fiat, went from a small-block to a 440. This video, shot from the 302-powered Mustard Yellow Volvo Doing 45 In The Fast Lane, shows the Fury in action at Reno-Fernley.


The Fury was not tagged Fiat for that race. Car owner and crew chief Mike would have packed up and left before that happened. The car originally had a small block, had a few different junker big blocks and ended up with a small block again. The car has since been retired. If that video was from the last two hours on Saturday at Reno-Fernley then it's me driving. We finished 9th overall if memory serves. Would have done better if driver #1 didn't have to pit to pee, we hadn't gotten a bogus black flag and the ignition system had held up for me.

_________________
Joshua


Top
   
 Post subject: Calling Murilee
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:33 am 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:08 am
Posts: 16505
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Car Model:
Please have them contact me, and I'll recommend (partially supply?) a $494 recipe that should last and make power. I think a biggish carb and oilpan mods are key points.

When is the Charlotte race?

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC-07:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited