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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:01 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lej3pXG74Zg


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:01 pm 
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You beat me to it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:14 pm 
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I don't necessarily agree with the talking points and "facts".. that are presented.

Also if an engine is properly built I feel It can run fine.
Dosen't Earnst drive his car there.

I think they are just stirring the lemon stew at the expense of EVR.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:30 am 
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Gotta laugh with 'em on this stuff! They really love us or they wouldn't be featuring Slant cars as much. Hopefully Toadracer will be a bit less "butt turrible." :roll: :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:57 am 
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I doubt it... :lol:

It’s all in good fun. They really do like the Slant stuff.

The first clip is Jason’s car at Barber when it ate the air cleaner bolt. I was hoping it would show the Valiant more, but it was all EVR after that.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:01 pm 
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Well, kinda. They showed a lot of clips of our car, but they only actually talked about The Resistance. I'm not sure Lemons HQ knows the difference between our teams anymore...

On balance, I think what they said about the slant six is fair. They're overbuilt, torquey, long-stroke engines that aren't really intended to rev above 4k in stock form. Sure you can build them for racing, but the ones you see in Lemons are mostly stock and often not even refreshed.

I think a lot of the cheap "survivors" you see for sale today suffer from particularly poor maintenance because of the engines' reputation for reliability. How many times have you heard people joke that "you never have to change the oil as long as you top it off as it leaks out?" Well if Bubba thought the slant six was bulletproof, he'd do that kind of thing for years. A Slant will run a long time with bad oiling and bad cooling, as long as it's just going back and forth to the grocery store. Throwing it on a racetrack after picking it up on Craigslist isn't usually going to end well in that case.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:37 pm 
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Someday, we are going to build a "strong effort" Slant 6 motor for a Lemons car... Can be done quite cheaply, hasn't been done yet.

Lou

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:04 pm 
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I might have some ideas..

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:17 pm 
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Dart270 wrote:
Someday, we are going to build a "strong effort" Slant 6 motor for a Lemons car... Can be done quite cheaply, hasn't been done yet.

Lou


Someday soon I hope! Like right after Sebring so we have it in for NCM in September! :twisted: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:28 pm 
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I hope all you guys running in circles can get excited about some straight line races too! :D :D

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:59 pm 
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Nascar runs in circles and Ovals. Plenty of straight lines in auto x and road racing.. in between the corners.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:57 pm 
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This post got me thinking about the history of slant six failures in Lemons. I'll record what I know for posterity. Warning: incoming wall of text.

EVR has "killed" a total of four slants in eight years of Lemons racing. We've never revved one higher than about 4800 RPM except for a couple accidental downshift incidents.
1. Red 1 (original 1964 block): Rebuilt by a small, quality shop that didn't know much about slant sixes. Drove ~20,000 miles and then 5 endurance races. Still ran and made good oil pressure when we pulled it, but the blow-by was so bad we actually lost our dipstick on track. Rings were all in pieces; I'm guessing they were gapped for street driving and then closed up during one or more overheating incidents before we put a decent radiator in the car.
2. Red 2 ('64 block): Pulled out of a Craigslist car (now the "Art Car") and slapped right into the race car. We never should have raced this engine without at least cleaning out the oil pump relief valve, but we were dumb and in a hurry. It didn't make good oil pressure and threw a rod after about an hour on track.
3. Red 1, Part 2 (rebuilt original block): Quick ring and bearing job done by a couple drunk monkeys in a garage. Rings gapped wide. The head got a deck job and then big valves after we won Lemons Class C. This engine ran great for 9 endurance races despite repeated blown head gaskets (primarily due to us not doing our homework on ignition timing when increasing SCR) and also ingesting a carb nut. It was only retired because we cracked the water jacket early in its rebuilt life, either during a hard freeze at the cancelled ECR 2016 race or after our last blown HG went into the water jacket at CMP 2016.
4. Blue ('73 block): Stock. Ring and bearing job again performed by two drunk monkeys in a garage. This engine always ran hot because we are stupid, and our decent aluminum radiator was now clogged with 3 cans of Barr's leak after racing the cracked Red block for so long. It survived for 3 endurance races, and then we blew a bunch of ring lands off (pretty much on purpose) with a badly-tuned blow-through turbo.

The Resistance (our quasi-sister team from Austin) has only killed one engine that I know of, and it's the one mentioned in the above Youtube video. It was a cast-crank block, and I believe it was the one in the car when they bought it. No idea about its operating conditions, but after surviving one full 24-hour endurance race (MSR 2018) it started knocking on practice day at NOLA 2019. They acquired the "Bud" engine the next day, which was one of the transition-year blocks with a late casting number but a forged crank. They decided to save it for a proper rebuild, and slapped new rod bearings in their knocking cast-crank engine after sanding the rod caps down. It blew up about 12 laps later, but it still drove onto the trailer.

Jason's Valiant killed one engine I know of, but that was from eating an entire bolt. Somewhat larger than the 1/4"-20 nut that banged around in our engine for most of a race day. I know the Slant Six E30 killed at least one engine, but y'all would know the history on that car better than I do.

Dudes Ex Machina, a California Lemons team run by a forum user named mackwagon, had some issues with their slant six, but I don't know much detail. I seem to recall him mentioning overheating issues, and I know at some point they installed an Accusump system for oiling. Based on one old post I found, it seems they were running up to 5500 RPM regularly with a built "long-rod" engine.

Squatting Dog Racing, another Lemons Team, blew up a slant in their Valiant back in 2015, but the race summary article blames it on overheating when they lost a fan belt. It also sounded like the car was a field-find with the original engine, so who knows what its original condition was.

The Oly Express team from Washington state ran a slanted '64 Barracuda for a while, but they eventually switched to a V8. Not sure what troubles they had with the slant, if any.

Anyway... what I gather from all this anecdotal data is that if you want to keep a Slant Six alive in road racing, you need to keep it cool, well-oiled, and below 5000 RPM. Big surprise, I know.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Nice.. Thanks for the history Lesson Frank!

So ....
- Buy a good Rad.

- Design a proper pan and oiling system.

- Throughly flush the cooling System, Tins and Block area and get rind of all the nasty rust in the cooling jackets and dino turds from inside the engine and crank case.

- Spend time building the thing correctly before you get so excited to get out on track.

- Locktite / nylock / safety wire any screws, nuts or bolts in the intake path.

- Rev Limiter @ 5020RPM.

Got it..

Greg

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:25 pm 
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I should add that we've never actually done any oil pan mods. I don't know if the style of pickup makes a difference, if we're not cornering hard enough, or if we've just gotten lucky. I've never noticed oil pressure dropping in turns, but I think Lou mentioned he saw it starting to dip in long corners when he drove our car at Barber in 2019.

And of course we did just trash an oil pump gear for the first time ever, but it was caught in time to save the engine. I should probably start a new topic about that...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:00 am 
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I am still mystified at how long your engines have lasted with no oilpan/baffle mods, Frank. Not that I have had tons of trouble myself, but I've always paid attention to oilpan and pickup mods. Hey, Mopawah to yah!

Lou

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