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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:27 pm
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model: 68 Valiant
I ran the shorties on my red car. I'm going to put that motor in the Valiant and use that big nitrous header. Wonder if it will make any difference?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:19 am 
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Do you still have those Super Comp headers you snookered me out of…? :lol:

Howard said his engine responded well to the shorty headers. Of course, that was many iterations of engine development when his was closer to what mine is now.

The extra room, weight savings, and ground clearance were bigger factors for me to make this switch.

I’ll measure the long tubes we just took off. I think they are just 1 1/2” as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:01 am 
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Just a FYI. Back when I was running my 170 in stock eliminator, Jack Clifford made me a set of long tube headers that were 1 5/8 in tubes (the ones I had been running were 1 1/2 in "off the shelf" long tubes). The 1 1/2 in headers were better, and went back to those.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:28 am 
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Good to know, Charlie. Thanks.

I’m just hoping a Poser like me can take advantage of the tools I’ve been given.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally….

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:36 am 
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Rob Simmons wrote:
Do you still have those Super Comp headers you snookered me out of…? :lol:


I have no clue where those even ended up. Didn't you get a set from Mike that had been in my car?

Mike tried the 1-1/2" 6X1 Mopar headers on his Stocker motor on Bogner's dyno. He said it sounded great when they fired it up, but as soon as they opened the throttle it went downhill. It was down 20 horse to the Hookers.

The shorties are nice for ease of maintenance, and I don't think they flow that bad either. I went pretty fast with them in a heavy car.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:48 am 
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That's why I asked what size the pipes were. Many racers have ran really fast with small tubes, Guzzi, Barry Harrison, and Howard's old motor. I always thought that a 1 1/2" to 1 5/8" step header might be the best for slants in the 300HP class but as far as I know no one has tried that. I know about Mike's experience with his stocker motor and I can't explain that. I would have bet money that 1 1/2" would have been better.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:22 am 
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I have a set of the Clifford 1 5/8” long tubes in my car now.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:32 am 
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Rick Covalt wrote:
I have a set of the Clifford 1 5/8” long tubes in my car now.


I think that's what is in mine too.

I can tell you that the big nitrous header makes 0 torque under 4000 on an N/A motor. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:50 pm
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Car Model: 64 Plymouth Valiant
You could put an AR (anti-reversion) pipe on the end of the collector.

Usually help low end without affecting high.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:21 am 
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
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Or just use my 5200 stall converter. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:38 am 
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Car Model: More cars than sense...
I checked the long tube headers we just took off. They are also 1 1/2”.

The torque numbers from the dyno pulls are pretty good. We will see…

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:30 am 
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Location: Park Forest, Illinoisy
Car Model: 68 Valiant
I got a call from Howard yesterday. We talked for over an hour and I'm not sure he ever did say why he called. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:50 am 
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Very cool. Good guy.

My visits with him are usually a couple hours. This last one was more like 4! :shock:

There was quite a bit he needed to try and teach me… I didn’t have the heart to tell him his efforts were likely being wasted on a Poser like me… :roll: :oops:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:52 am 
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Location: Cox’s Creek, KY
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I ran out of time during my visit home recently, so the engine did not get re-installed yet. I got the methanol-infected oil out of it and sprayed some WD-40 in the cylinders. Hopefully it will still be there whenever I can get back around to fiddling with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:11 am 
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Location: Cox’s Creek, KY
Car Model: More cars than sense...
Hey Stan,

Here is the head flow data from most of my junk.

Rob Simmons wrote:
I thought I had posted this a long time ago. I looked and saw where I promised it...., but that was it... :oops:

Here are the goods on the head I got from Howard Davis. This is the head he was running before he made his billet head:

Valve sizes are: Exhaust - 1.45 and Intake - 1.70
Chamber volume=50cc

Lift....Intake@28"....Exhaust@28"......Ratio..E/I
200.....116.60.............95.00...............81%
300.....158.12............133.56..............84%
400.....177.00............158.12..............89%
450.....185.26............159.30..............86%
500.....188.80............159.30..............84%
550.....189.98............159.30..............84%
AVG:...169.29............144.10..............85%

Compared to the Norm Foster head flowed on the same bench:

Valve sizes are: Exhaust - 1.55 and Intake - 1.83
Chamber volume=45cc

Lift....Intake@28"....Exhaust@28"......Ratio..E/I
200.......89...................70................78.6%
300......137.................107................78.1%
400......174.................122................70.1%
450......187.................126................67.4%
500......195.................129................66.1%
530......198.................131................66.2%
550......195.................131................67.2%
600......184.................132................71.7%
AVG:...169.87.............118.50............69.7%

And the Gary Bruner head flowed on a different bench at 25"
(Seymour's Notes)

Valve sizes are: Exhaust - 1.45 and Intake - 1.78
Chamber volume=47cc

Lift....Intake@25"....Exhaust@25"......Ratio..E/I
200.....102....................93.................91%
300.....150...................141................94%
400.....183...................160................87%
500.....192...................169................88%
600.....201...................177................88%
700.....205...................181................88%
AVG:...153.50..............172.16............89%

And the milder Gerald Wright head on GodsRods Duster II (Also flowed by Gerald on the same bench as the Davis and Foster heads):

Valve sizes are: Exhaust - 1.31 and Intake - 1.61
Chamber volume=53cc(?)

Lift....Intake@28"....Exhaust@28"......Ratio..E/I
200.....103....................85.................83%
300.....143...................102................72%
400.....160...................110................69%
500.....168...................118................70%
600.....168...................118................70%
700.....168...................118................70%
AVG:...151.66..............108.50............71.5%

And last, but not least (well, actually it is the least :lol: ) is the same head as above before Gerald cleaned up the ports a little bit.

Valve sizes are: Exhaust - 1.31 and Intake - 1.61
(I think he flowed it after the valve size increase, but these numbers may be completely stock, can't remember now)

Lift....Intake@28"....Exhaust@28"......Ratio..E/I
200......90.....................87.................90%
300.....129...................104................81%
400.....141...................110................78%
500.....148...................113................77%
600.....148...................113................77%
700.....148...................113................77%
AVG:...134...................106.66...........79.6%

There! Now I've got all this stuff recorded in one place finally. Thanks Chuck for providing this Forum! :D

Now to dig through stuff and find the rest of the engine specs for each engine... :roll: :lol:

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