Reed,

Ken at Delta Cams said they have (3) programmed grinds for the SL6. They are based on Comp Cams profiles.
The 254S which I have 212@.050 - .435 lift, the 264 which is 220@.050 - .440 lift and the E2 for racing 227@.050 - .430 lift. All are ground at 110 degree lobe centers.

He said the 254S will bleed of the compression the least of the three cams and will produce the most torque especially if you increase compression. He said to install it straight up which should be 106 degrees, but if you want more torque set at 108 degrees. No advance ground into the cams......

Prices are still cheap $44.50 if hand them a core. They will do a custom grind like one of Doc's if they the correct tooling. Price is $83.50. But like Doc, says it would be nice to see a copy of the program or profile plot.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Dadtruck,

My build information is located in the Engine FAQ under Engine Build Matrix called "Torgue and Mileage build"

The only changes I am making internally is to install a double roller chain to reduce chain stretch, a HV oil pump and Engine Builder valves. Holley carb specs are 230 CFM.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I didn't even get a cam card with my cam from Delta Cams. Now I see why.

Oh well. I will be back to the drawing board anyway when I build the hydraulic motor for my brother's Duster. I want to use the head I had rebuilt and milled for his van but that made the van motor ping. I milled a bunch off the head (about .100 if I remember correctly), so I am concerned about the compression ratio. I will need to get all the measurements and then spend time playing with valve events to figure out what sort of cam profile I need to bleed the dynamic compression ratio down to use regular gas. I may end up just selling this head and starting from scratch.

Here is a Dave Vizard article,, grasp this and you will be spec'ing your own cams,, or at the minimum, understanding what you bought/.

Get a cold one and sit down an read this,, I have done it a couple of times,
after the second one I always see some thing new!

http://www.stockcarracing.com/techartic ... index.html

Dose this info translate to our inline 120* event architecture?

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

at least to the extent that you pick the overlap and work out from there.
when he speaks of large displacement 2 valve engines being under valved, the slant six, due to the small bore size, shares the under valved description.

Most of that article overlapped (haha) with a PHR article around 2007. I am speccing my 225 cams at 105 or 106 LCA these days, assuming 1.72-1.76 int valve. We have a LONG stroke (and high stroke/bore ratio), so tighten LCA from his chart.

As you can see from his dyno torque figs, if 108 is optimal, 106 or 110 will be almost identical and you can choose a bit higher if you want a bit more vacuum/low end. My engines have behaved very well with 106 LCA, so I see no reason to change that.

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

The number of cylinders doesn't change a thing as far as optimum cam/valve timing is concerned, but the size of the cylinder does.

_________________
Joshua

Josh:
The number of cylinders doesn't change a thing as far as optimum cam/valve timing is concerned, but the size of the cylinder does.


Well that makes sense. It takes the same number of degrees to run a piston through the Otto cycle regardless of orientation to crankshaft. I guess that was an early morning, dumb, not well thought out question on my part. I’ll have to read this stuff with a bit more focus a few times more before blurting out my thoughts.

Thanks for setting me straight Josh.

The long stroke discussion portion of the article sort of passed me by. The numbers for my engine generate approximately 106.5* LCA using Vizard’s formula, and I’m at ~99*.

This cam of mine is from circa 1992, and looks as if cam theory has moved on to a higher level in the last twenty years.

Bill

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

added the cam info from the Delta 254S to the cam log,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13718356@N ... 928303940/

certainly the lobes are different, but the valve events are very simular to the RV-15,, I did put this in as a hydraulic cam,,which is the same way I entered the RV cams. I believe it really is a mechanical,, so when the effect of the lash is added, actual duration and valve opening will be slightly less.

I also ran it through the dyno sim,, using the Delta 254S cam with the improved engine mods that I had used on all the other simulations

The 254S falls right in with the others,,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13718356@N ... 928303940/

with my engine set up looks like the Oregon 1527 either advanced or on 105 LSA with 105 centerlines has good low and mid range torque and HP ,,, looks like when the cam was advanced 4 degrees,, (cam #14) it shows a couple of lb of torque pick up in the low mid RPM's,, the straight up set, 105-105-105, showed the best HP at the higher RPM's.

AT,, I'll do your engine simulation tomorrow.

Does anyone on here use Clifford cams? How are they in comparison to everything else?

Aggressive Ted

ran your build info from the engine matrix through the desk top dyno

guessed at the valve lash, it is mechanical? put intake at .010 and ex at .015.
I also had the program estimate timing for best results, even though the intake is stock, it is gasket matched so I put it as high flow,,
so here it is

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13718356@N ... 931207090/

there are 8 pages,
1&2 are the input data
3, program calculated head flow
4 to 8, engine output analysis

looks like the power would be good to around 3800 rpm,,drop off quick past 4200. is that how the car feels?

Interesting. Thanks Dadtruck!

did an analysis of
cam 14, oregon 1527, 106 LSA, 102 intake & 110 exhaust,, basically advanced 4 degrees
cam 15, oregon 1527, 105 LSA, 105 intake and 105 exhaust

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13718356@N ... 931772832/

torque and hp lines are almost on top of each other with the #14 cam a lines width up until 4500 RPM,, there the cam that is not advanced (#15) falls off at a slower rate,,

for volumetric effectiveness,, which compares actual to the theoretical best flow through an engine, here the advanced cam shows a definite potential advantage up to 4500 rpm, after that the straight cam has an even bigger advantage.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13718356@N02/5398640986/

Dadtruck,

Yes, mechanical and I am running .008 on the intake and .022 on the exhaust. That nets the highest vacuum readings at idle and cruise. I am also running much higher timming. The plots are found in Engine FAQ, Timing Curve/Recurve information, Ted's Curve. As you can see my distrubutor is set for 32 degrees base and 54 degrees at cruise. At this setting turning a little over 2500 rpm which nets 60 MPH I get my best mileage at over 25 mpg depending on how loaded I am. When we go camping I am well over 4,500 lbs. and still get 25+ mpg.

With a 2.76 8 3/4 sure-grip the car is "spunky as heck" with just two people and a 1/2 a tank. It will break loose the P225 60 T/A radials in a blink of the eye. I wore out one set of P235's......When cruising at 60 mph and then stepping on it the rpms climb very quickly and I am at 90 mph. From a dead stop I can hit 90 mph on most freeway on ramps. After doing this several morning is a row, the Issaquah police and State Patrol are on to me. After that it doesn't climb very fast. It seems to top out a little over 4000. I wasn't sure why....if it was the carb or if it was the small valves. That is why it is out of the car at the moment and getting some upgrades. I have stretched the chain some from too many burn outs. The Engine Builder valves are going in, as well as one of Doc's HV oil pumps, a crank scrapper and some more head porting and the Weiand four barrel intake manifold so I can run a BBD, and try Holley 2280, a 4360 and a Edelbrock AVS 500.

Can you send me the plots in a jpeg or pdf or word doc? It's a real pain to see the small print and is very hard to read them on my laptop. What I could see looks like it's close. I have one good eye. The retina on my left eye completely detached 4 years ago........
I want to tune the motor for max torque at 2500 rpm. Doc helped me with the "Torque and Mileage recipe" and said I should be hitting a good solid 200 torque and 160 HP. Now that I know that works well, I would like to get a little more torque at 2500 and extend it past 3000 if possible. I will stay with the 2.76 gears after trying 2.9's and 3.23's. I put on a lot of miles from the long commutes.

Thanks for running the plots.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG