What an interesting evoving discussion! Sick, a college roommate of mine started a little vacuum forming business in our living room...he used a TV picture tube with the neck broken off, connected to a vacuum pump as the vacuum "reservoir" and I made molds! If you look at a periodic table of the elements you will see in one colum a group of metals...Iron, Aluminum, etc. They all act the same way in that column and that is why there is aluminum oxide (oxidized alumium surfaces) and aluminum phosphate like iron oxide (rust) and iron phosphate. Each metal reacts with H and O and the result is a form of water.

Carrigan3, many guys on this forum red that old chem and use it..stick with it, a good understanding of orbitals will carry you through to A's in engineering school! I may have to adopt a mole like Dan writes about...that is a great story, Dan, and I followed your advice to google metal ready ..

For Luthastro here is a good site: http://www.hillmanimages.com/912/rust.html

Naval jelly is great stuff and is basically like a jellied metal ready, which is a trademark of the POR-15 company. I see a common thread in reading a bunch of articles I googled...problems are reported when the person using the POR-15 didn't clean and dry...note I said I used Brake Clean after using a degreaser, then came back with the Metal Ready, let dry overnight, then heat dried immediately before painting. Not overkill for me because I only wanted to do it one time!

If I had a door problem as you describe I wouldn't try to fix it myself. Dan is right, what you don't see may well be much more extensive than what you do see. I don't know a thing about body work...except it is a lot of work I am too lazy to do and would need a much time to learn as I have spent learning mechanics....and getting tools. If you have a working knowledge of body repair and don't mind jumping in, you might get a POR-15 catalog and read up on their "PowerMesh" , Floor Pan and Trunk kit, and the POR Epoxy putty. One reason I don't mess with this stuff is you have to get all the rust...it is like cancer...if you leave a little under some paint, it will come back.

Best wishes to all..
rock
'64d100

Cool! I wanted to do that too but I just don't have the room for it right now. I would probably just make stuff for myself anyway.

Right now I am making (CNC) custom gauge clusters for a-bodies.


So, if I am hearing everyone correctly, POR-15 is a trustworthy product?

I see I left out a word.

Hm, I've heard about phosphoric acid for years, but never BEFORE how to find it. Rot? Oh.

I think I finally found what I wanted to know. Metal ready, not being the hot soup he was talking about, needs to soak into heavy rust for something like a day to desolve it.

I'll bet you're just the person to answer about something I just remembered. When I was spending time making telescopes I found something saying there was an electrolytic process whereby one could actually turn iron oxide back to iron - not iron phosphate or the like. I haven't even been able to relocate that, let alone any info about whether it is total baloney.

Comments?

Here's a clever trick: Need to de-rust a small piece of metal, or a bolt/nut junction, and you haven't got any Naval Jelly or Metal Ready on hand? Use Coca-Cola! It contains a surprisingly high concentration (for something you drink) of Phosphoric acid.
Right, but the key thing to remember is that it doesn't "put back" good metal, it just gets the rust out of your way so you have (what's left of the) clean metal to start working from as you do your repairs. There's no such a thing as you turn rust back into solid metal. Rust converters stabilise surface rust so that it will not worsen, but that's not the same thing.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan's deal about coca cola on rust is right on...ironic to think of, isn't it!

And, as he alludes, no, you can't make "iron" out of rust..except as a theoretical. What you have to remember is that "iron" is not a pure collection of FE ions. It is almost always combined with oxygen. So, taking rust, Iron Oxide and converting to a solid requires the pressure and temperature conditions at which it was formed initially....miles beneath the earth's crust. Yeh, this can be done, like making a diamond from carbon, but much easier to dig out some "ore", which is FE and all kinds of other atoms all "mashed" in at time of rock formation, and grind it up and strip out the atoms you don't want. In a melt then, you add back those you do want...as in nickel, manganese, etc. And, of course this is what rust converters really do, just at room temp and pressure. Naval Jelly and Metal Ready just selectivel allows the replacement of one group of ions with those of phoshphate and zinc..just what hot galvanizing does! All this shows us how to keep our toys from "rusting", or turning to iron oxides.
rock
'64d100

Decades ago I knew a guy who poured Coke into his spark plug holes to loosen up some rusted piston rings. I figured it to be a stretch, but they were dead serious sbout it. Interesting. Some of the web sites I found said Metal Ready gives you zinc phosphate, but indicated that at least some other phosphoric based preparations left iron phosphate - assumedly an inferior result. Are they completely off?

Tthanks for your reply.

So back to what I started the thread for,

Does anyone have a negative opinion on VHT or POR-15?

I've never used POR-15. I've used both VHT and DupliColor, and I tend to prefer DupliColor. They have all the Chrysler engine colors, Its available on the shelf at O'Reilly and NAPA, and it just seems to give a better finish in most cases. But I'm a LOUSY painter, so that may be the problem :-p

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Thanks. I made a local copy of that site last night. I've done a fair amount. I don't mind it because it has very little heavy lifting. More time than money, etc. Thanks. It would be very nice if Chrysler had done their coating more thoroughly. In the quarter panels the coating only goes down to where you can't see it - just short of the place where it needs it the most. I see now why restorers often completely disassemble their vehicles and start from scratch.

I primed my block with Rust Destroyer
http://www.rust007.com/destroyerhome.htm

Good to 800˚F, Military Spec Stuff. It is slow curing so don't expect to handle the piece for at least 24 hours.

Although I have read you can get it at the Home Cheapo, (Can you say factory seconds?)
I would purchase it from a professional paint store. Last time I bought some it was $15 for a rattle can.

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<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2992308402_5481afb26e_t.jpg">

i have used por15 ... good results .... A TIP .... once you open can dip out what you need into glass jar ....take a piece of plastic (breadbag,sandwichbag) and put over top of can befor sealing lid....cause if you got just a speck of it in lid groove it will weld lid on can

Good point! This point is some of the toughest paint I have ever seen. If you follow their process using Marine Clean then the Metal Ready product before painting with their engine enamel you will have a very durable glossy finish. It is the same products and process used for restoration of the frame and body.

Awesome product! POR15.com

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I used Bill Hirsch Chrysler red engine paint. It worked fine and has been on for three years.Many light coats is key. I think it was about $10 a can

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61' Lancer 4 door shaved .200 ported polished,Balanced, Hyper-pak ,Headers,dual 2.5", 4 speed, 3.23 posi 8 3/4",205 70

I tried Eastwood ceramic engine paint w/activator. I used a touch up gun to shoot it. The paint came out beautiful. It was glossy, flowed smooth and looked great. Too bad it was the wrong color. It looked like a cross between Chrysler turquoise and Chrysler blue. I called and they refunded my credit card fast. I e-mailed a sales rep, told him I really like the paint and would reorder if he would guarantee the I would get the right color. I attached a picture of a can of Mopar engine paint and a picture of the intake I had painted. I told him I needed the color of the cap on the Mopar paint not the color they sold me as Chrysler blue. He e-mailed me back and said that I should buy and use the Mopar paint, which pissed me off as I have spent a lot of money with Eastwood. In the end I used Bill Hirsch engine paint. I haven't run it yet but it looks good and has good reviews.

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Thanks Mike