Hello all,
Been a bit, but finally getting part of the project done. Still have lots of work to do.

Here is the latest. Converted the fan to electric. Found a Hayden fan that is two speed and is 2.6 inches thick total so just fits in the space I have. Fan is 17 inches diameter. Radiator is a new one that is listed as the Slant radiator for a '71 Dart with AC. Car had 7 blade fan with no clutch on it that was probably put on at the dealer when new when the dealer add on AC was put on.

AC quit working so have not been running it obviously. Anyway, added an aftermarket temp gauge. Temp with the 7 blade fan, new hoses, new radiator and new 195 degree thermostat would hold solid at 210 on the gauge. This is also where it has a little dotted line indicator. Needle stayed rock solid on there even in hotter outside temps (in New Mexico).

Okay, did the electric fan. Have it wired through relays (went a bit OTT here and got a power distribution block of an Exploder and rewired it so I have relays and fuses for two speeds on the fan, headlamps high and low beam and another relayed item). Fan needs both power wires on it to be energized to run on high so used a screw in sender that I got the number from Ted on to trigger both to pop the fan on high when needed (sender is listed for something like and '85 or so Camaro). In the garage with the bonnet up on first start up the engine temp on the gauge got to 230-235 before the fan popped on. With the 7 blade constant mechanical fan it would get to the 210 hash mark and stay there. After that the fan cooled the temp on the gauge down to 210 and then cycled on and off with it sitting there idling. The gauge would maybe get to say 215 or so and the fan would pop on. All the time the bonnet was up.

Sender to the gauge is to the engine not the radiator by the way.

So, today we take a run around town. Temps outside in the mid 80's so not the typical high temps. Started the car and pretty much took off to the coffee shop. Ran down the road about 4 miles to the shop. Temp on the gauge climbed, but had not reached 210. Got the coffee and got on the highway. Went 11 miles on the highway at 65 to 70 mph. Temp climbed on the gauge and stayed solid at 230. No fan kicked on.

Assumed that enough air was coming in the grill at speed to keep the radiator under the level to kick the sender in, but was not cooling the engine as well and thus had higher temp. Anyway, no fan kicked on at all during the whole trip down. Pulled in to get fuel, turned the car off and after a bit the fan cycled in for about a minute and then cut off (no, not an electrical issue, I have one side of the fan run so that when the car is off it will cycle the fan on low for a while to cool things down).

So, by now the engine should be up to temp. Drove it for the most part today with no fan kicking on. Average temp on the gauge at steady speed was 230. When the gauge reached approx 233-235 the fan would cut on and run until the temp on the gauge got to 210. It would then cycle off and eventually work its way (with stop and go traffic and moving at 30 to 39 mph) back up to sticking around approx 230. If it creapt over the 230 mark to say 233 or so then the fan would cut on an stay running until it got back down to 210.

So, after that book here is the question. I've got no pinging that I can hear. Car seems to run okay and has not boiled over or anything. Is it okay to run a slant in this range? I know newer cars run in this area, but wonder about how safe it is on the '71. Just don't want to muck something up. With temps perhaps averaging today at 225 to a more solid 230 I'm a little concerned in the jump compared to the constant run 7 blade fan level of 210 on the button.

Also concerned as today was not the usual 90's to perhaps 100's for summer temps. Was a bit surprised at the highway temp being so high as would have thought the air movement through the grill would have cooled it enough.

Thoughts?

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

Thought I'd give a potentially clearer version to perhaps help understanding and get a reply.

With aftermarket temp gauge (guage has solid temp marks and numbers and at the 210 degree mark has a smaller hash marked line to indicate a normal line), new 195 degree thermostat, 7 blade fan directly driven off the pump no clutch, everything runs fine. Temp consistently solid right on 210 line during normal warmed up running regardless of temps outside.

Did electric fan conversion using thermal switch screwed into top radiator tank as trigger as seemed a more reliable option. Got the number for a 210 rated one from Ted (thanks again Ted).

Now when driving the car, fan hardly runs at all (have indicator light so I know when it cycles). Ran down the highway at 65-70 mph and temp basically held at 230 degrees all the way with no fan cycle.

Driving in town fan popped on finally at around the 235 mark while driving in the 30 to 40 mph range. Took the temp down to 210 and then turned off. Temp then slowly climbed back up until it cycled the fan on again at about 235.

In the majority of driving the fan never came on. Car temp sat on the 225 to 230 range.

Know some new cars with electronic controls run in this temp range. Is it okay for a slant or just edgeing too hot? Just concerned with a temp reading increase of 15 to 20 degrees on average.

Temp gauge is triggered using the sensor supplied with the gauge and is mounted in the stock location by the thermostat housing. Car seems to run fine, no ping or boil over.

Thanks for any help.

Cheers

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

sounds a bit toasty to me if i had an accurate (new) gauge i'd let ya know how hot mine runs but can't because of that problem. i haven't had many problem with overheating so i'm not really sure what the temp is supposed to be i always thought you were supposed to keep it below 212 (boiling point of water). Maybe? a thought

Kev

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hi i think it"s running to hot have you checked the termostat it may be opening partley and i would check the bottom radater hose the inner wire could of rusted out and the hose is getting sucked

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slants6 forever

I think you need a lower temp fan thermostat.

I prefer the adjustable ones so you can set the fan to turn on where you want (and to compensate for any differences you may get depending on where it's located)

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Thanks all. I've been considering perhaps a different switch. The one on it is a 210 switch that when looked up shows mid 80's Camaro as I remember. Going to look today and see if I have any of my old auto parts catalogues still that might give me the specs in the buyers guide.

All new pieces in the system, just a matter of with the electric fan set and switch I went from a solid 210 on the gauge to basically mostly 230, but fluctuating with the fan bringing it down to 210 on the gauge and then letting it slowly creap up.

Basically about a 20 degree jump. Variance being the wonders of not having a constant fan, temp reading on gauge from engine, but switch mounted in top tank of radiator so getting a difference between the two that is not shown on the gauge.

In hindsight, would have been interesting to know exactly what the temp was at the radiator tank when I was running the 7 blade direct drive fan compared to the gauge showing 210.

I do have to say that so far I'm pretty impressed with the fan. Very tight clearance. Fan 2.6 inch thick overall and 17 diameter. When it pops on (wired to be on high during cycling) it cools the system down pretty quickly).

I'll update with what I come up with switch wise. None of them I guess are one size fits all, but might be useful.

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

Did a bit of searching through Standard for a new radiator fan switch. The listing actually shows the TS217 I have to be rated at 212 degrees and to have a tolerance of 10 degrees (as I understand it the switch may vary in operation by this much by their specs).

Could not see any others looking in my old Standard Buyers guide so called and talked to Standard and according to them, as fan switches go this is a very low temp rated one that was used mainly in HD applications and most switches are rated to cut on at higher temps. Just what he told me and have no data to support, but interesting.

The top tank thread size is 3/8 x 18 nptf. The nptf is pipe thread with the f meaning that it is tapered to seal and is a dry fit. The tech at Standard did find a single choice for a lower temp that they offer. The part number is TS536 (Echlin FS271). Says it is fine to run it to relays, but will not hold up under direct wire to a fan (as in you run the power wires direct to the fan and use this fan switch to turn them on by being the ground when it reaches temp). So.............Designed for use with relays only!


Specs from the tech for the new switch are: Single spade terminal (creates ground through radiator so need to ensure good grounded contact), Normally open, turns on at 198 degrees. No tolerance range given.

Thread is listed as 3/8 x 18 npt. According to the tech there is some laziness in listing things exactly for npt and nptf. With the design of the part and what it is used for they are pretty standard the same (meaning a fan switchs listed at 3/8 x 18, 3/8 x 18 npt and 3/8 x 18 nptf are all the same just someone could not be bothered to list the thread designation) and just being called the generic npt instead of nptf. Has not got back to me on verification.

Big down side of the new switch is the price. Probably very much easier to purchase a more option filled fan controller from the fan manufacturer. Only reason I did not do this on my initial install is that I'd read quite a few issues with various fan controllers going out. Now, if this was a design issue or an installation issue no telling. Anyway, on a quick search for pricing on the TS536 prices were anywhere from $57 or so to $67 so far. Bit steep!

So, promised I would update with what I found so far so there you have it.

Cheers

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

MoparBrit,

You don't need to change the switch, just the thermostat. SL6 Dan suggested that I go to a 180 Superstat and it is running nice and cool now. I also changed the cap from the 16 pound to a 7 pound so the over flow coolant tank is really working. It has been 80 to 90 degrees up here and have had no problems. The 195 stat doesn't provide much margin, so I will save it for the winter months. I am wondering if your new gage is running high? or is happy with your temp sender? Do you have a temp probe or hand held laser unit to verify engine heat verses radiator heat?

We just took a long trip in the heat and everything stayed on cool side with the fan only kicking on at stop lights or during heat soak after engine shut off. I usually leave it armed when going shopping etc....so it can turn on when it wants. After the trip I finally hit 25 mpg for combined freeway and stop and go city driving. Not bad for an old tired 904 slush box.

By the way, I had to adjustable fan controller's go out in two months, the Derale and a Flex-i-lite unit. The temp switch is very steady and works consistently. I have mine wired to break the ground side trigger wire with no heavy load applied. It is the trigger for the BOSCH relay.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

This is wise, with water-based coolant.
This is definitely not wise. Go back to the correct cap!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I will soon as a new one comes in. It has been on order.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I use one of these on my toyota truck:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Prod ... thermostat


Very large adjustment range, so the sensor just needs to be near the radiator

(it looks just like the picture too.)

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Hi,

Thanks for the posts.

Hmmm, interesting on the thermostat. Might experiment with that as it is pretty cheap and pretty easy to do.

Ted, to answer your question on the temp gauge, it came with a sender. When installed and running the regular fan it sat solid on the hashed line (only hashed line on the gauge so assume it is the normal line) which looks like numerically it would be 210 degrees. Perhaps 215, but looks more like 210. Only change was the electric fan system and now goes up to approx 235 before cutting the fan on. Don't have a temp probe so just going off the new gauge and from what has changed.

Interestingly, well to me at least , I put the old stock sender back in today and rehooked the factory dash gauge back up. Ran the car while doing other work on it and waited for the fan to cut on. Fan cuts on in the normal range on the factory gauge (I know, not that accurate probably, but interesting to me regardless) just a little above the centre straight up. Fan cuts back off again when it reaches the centre point.

Be nice to have both temp gauges be able to be hooked up, but then any adaptor to put both senders in might cause reading issues and would probably look terrible anyway. Just be nicer than a dead temp gauge on the instrument cluster.

Nice mpg on your trip! I'm not getting close to that yet. Been testing various things to see what impact they have. So far most are a negative impact as 16.9 has been the pinicale and other readings have been lower since with similar driving.

I've recurved the dizzy with 52 total at 2400 (55 mph) with initial at 10 degrees, did the 2.25 exhaust to muffler and 2" out, electric fan, NGKs, tyre pressures at 35, jets etc. With jetting changes to the 1920 I've been richening it up to try and take care of the plug porcelain being white all the way down. I've got a 58 in there right now. When I got the car from California it had a 55 in it. The mpg has been in the high 13 to mid/high 14 range.

By the way, top dead centre shows to within a degree of the mark on the crank pulley and I've sprayed carb cleaner everywhere trying to see if there is a vac leak with no success. We also drive watching the vac gauge inside trying to keep it in the economy range all the time.

I did the exhaust and fan after increasing the jet size so the last thing I'm going to try is popping the original 55 back in, reset it and I'll give that a go to see what impact it has. Otherwise it looks like the next step for me is to pull the system and put the super six set on that I have sitting on the shelf along with the new 2280 I got from Dan and hope that by doing so I take a step in the right direction mpg wise. Sure would be nice to get into the 20's!

Cheers

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

I would check your water temperature with a known good thermometer by hand first. That sounds awfully hot for an OEM fan switch, though I guess it's possible. Most late-model cars look for an engine temp between the thermostat temp and 210-215 as normal operating temp. 225 is overheating.

Remember... the thermostat cover is alway a good place to add an extra temp sensor with-out having to do much work.
Be sure to off-set the hole to the high side so the sender's "bulb" does not hit the thermostat's support "hoop".
(trial-fit a thermostat into the cover to see where the room is)
DD

emsvitil - thanks for posting. I bought one a lot similar to that one. A Hayden 3653. I'm so used to that type either installing inside the hose or at least being pushed through the fins. Guess technology improvement as this one had a loop bracket that mounted it sideways behind the radiator free floating is it were. Was going to run the low side of the fan with it and the high side with the temp sensor I had. Could not get the one I had to work so have it ready to take back.

Might try the thermostat thing and see if that has any impact, but otherwise I see there is a kit Haden/Imperial puts out that looks to have a screw in sensor as the main unit. I'll maybe look into that.

robertob - That's what I thought, but then surprised when I was told by the Standard tech that it was actually (212 degrees) set quite low and all the others they make for OE radiator fan switch applications are set at a higher temp. Now, dawns on me this AM (3 AM that is) that perhaps he may have been meaning just in the 3/8 sizing. If I remember I'll have a look at the spec pages again in the Standard book and see if that is also on other sizes as a matter of interest.

Not sure I have a thermometer that will work for checking temps. Might be a good plan though to see where it actually is.

Doc - Hmmmm, might be a way to go on it. Would be nice to not have a inop factory dash panel. The sender I have is electric instead of mechanical, but would assume would work the same. Would probably have to get a threaded insert and then screw it in or do you think it would be okay screwing it in direct? I'm assuming you just threaded the housing? Think before I would attempt something similar I'd probably see if I could buy a replacement water neck just so I wouldn't be stuck if I goofed or cracked the housing or something.

Cheers

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!