I've seen on this site information about checking TOP DEAD CENTER at the number one spark plug using a wire hanger and the #1 spark plug removed. Can somebody direct me to that post? I'm ready to adjust the valves and I have never set an engine to TDC.

I need to know how to avoid setting TDC on the down stroke instead of upstroke (hope this is worded correct).

What do you mean by having the rotor point to the number one plug. Is that the actual number 1 plug in the block or the location on the distributor that carries the #1 wire to the plug?

Sorry for ignorant questions. There's always a first time. Now its my turn.

Pull the #1 spark plug (the one nearest the radiator). Put your thumb over the hole and rotate the motor by hand (this can be tricky if you don't have a helper) until you feel pressure pushing your thumb off the hole. Once you start to feel pressure, rotate the engine until the timing mark is lined up with 0 on the timing tab.

That's the easy way. THere are other ways that involve disassembling the motor, but you probably don't want to do that.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

The problem with using the timing mark is that they aren't always accurate. The outer ring can slip by several degrees. The most accurate method involves using a degree wheel and a piston stop.

With cylinder 1 coming up on the compression stroke and the piston stop in the spark plug hole slowly turn the engine until the piston contacts the piston stop. Note the position on the degree wheel. Then, turn the engine backward until the piston again contacts the piston stop and note the postion. Add the 2 numbers, divide by 2 then rotate the engine to that number on the degree wheel. That will be true TDC. Remark your balancer if necessary and you're good to go.

If you don't have a degree wheel there is a pdf file posted here somewhere that you can print out and mount on cardboard. Or you can just make marks on the rim of your balancer and then split the distance to find tdc. A degree wheel is more accurate though.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

If you have the original damper and it has slipped, it may be off... in which case, use a peice of coat hanger in the plug hole and roll the crank over and back and watch the coat hanger to see when the piston movement stops after the upstroke then you know where TDC is.
good luck

-D.idiot

Very rational question, unless you were born knowing the answer, as /6 Dan says, there are no dumb questions!

While Reed is right, I want to add something. My hands are big enough I can't get a finger in a plug hole on a peanut plug hole, and don't care to in a drool tube head. In the long run if you are interested enough to ask this question you will need a very handy tool: the remote start switch. There are countless flavors but they clip to your starter relay and as you "work" the switch to make and break the contact, you will be supplying current to the starter and the starter will "bump" the flywheel and rotate the engine. You can do this with the ignition switch on or off, depending on what you are trying to analyze. For safety sake, pull out your coil center wire so the engine won't start, unless that is what you are trying to have happen as you learn more.

Particularly since you have never done a TDC location, using the switch will let you "run" the engine a few times so you can get a sense of when #1 (or any) comes to top. Just take out the #1 plug (the one at the fan end) pull the coil wire, leave your ignition switch off, hold down your remote switch and listen as the engine turns a few times. THen put your finger (if thin enough) over the plug hole and turn the engine again. You will most likely be surprised how strongly the compressed air pushes against your finger and you probably will jump, like hitting electricity when you don't expect it. But the air won't hurt you.

Don't make a career out of turning over the engine with the switch because the switch wires won't carry that amp load long without getting too hot. Once you have the idea of how #1 comes up regularly, look down at your damper. Put some chalk on the slot cut perpendicularly to the rotation direction. Watch how that white spot moves in relation to how #1 comes up.

Now pull your distributor cap. Watch how the rotor moves in relation to the movement of the white spot you made. The spot will be at the stamped numbers once when the rotor is pointing kinda towards the #1 wire contact place in the distributor; the next time the spot will point 180 degrees away. It takes two turns of the damper per 4 stroke cycle because after compression and firing, you have to squeeze again to exhaust the burned gases. Look at a book to see what a 4 cycle engine does before you do the above and you will likely say to yourself...'Oh, now I get it!"

When you read here about guys getting there dizzy in 180 degrees out of place, they got the rotor pointing to another plug rather than #1, and it is a tribute to slants that they can run completely out of phase, even though roughly. I have done this and enjoyed seeing 2 foot long flames shoot out of the exhaust manifold. There is no doubt when you have it wrong.

THen, as to TDC, everyone does sumpin different. WHat you DONT want is something falling into the cylinder. I don't like a wire because it is too flexible. I use a wooden dowel in the hole. I turn the engine with a switch until I am near having the white spot near the stamped numbers and the rotor pointing to #1 place in the dizzy. Then I put a box end wrench on the damper bolt and rock the engine over by hand while holding the dowel very lightly in the hole. You can clearly feel the piston come up and touch the dowell then go back down. Once you have a feel for this, just let the dowel sit and VERY gently rock the engine with the wrench and you can see the dowel go up, then back down. TDC is in between these too movements.

It takes about 15 seconds to do this...much longer to write.

rock
'64d100

Another little trick that might help with the "fat fingered crowd" or those of us with old "Arthur" in the hands is to use a piece of fuel line hose down the plug recess.If you put your finger on the end of hose while turning motor over you can feel the pulses and can get a ballpark from that.

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83 B-150 slant 6,4 speed. 79 B-300 360 pathfinder 4x4. 74 W-300 318 4x4 git-r-done 80 B-100 sl6,4speed

If you use a remote starter switch as Rock describes, DO NOT use a piston stop.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

I forgot the piston stop trick!
Actually, this is my preferred way to do this check because you can also verify TDC on your vibration dampener.

Tis is basically the same as what Daknight said, but without the complexity of a degree wheel. You actually use the timing tab as the degree wheel!

(1) Pull the # 1 plug

(2) Rotate the engine until the timing mark is about 30 degrees BTDC

(3) Put the piston stop in the plug hole

(4) Slowly rotate the motor by hand, clockwise, until the motor won't turn.

(5) Mark TDC on the dampener. I suggest using a small piece of tap with the inside edge (the edge on the right) lining up with TDC. This is more acccurate than a dab of paint or white-out

(6) Now rotate the motor by hand counter clockwise until it stops.

(7) Mark TDC on the dampener again, but this time put the LEFT side of the tape on the TDC mark.

(8 ) Remove the piston stop.

(9) Look at your dampener. Ideally, the factory timing mark will be dead center between the two tape marks. However, at thise late date, chances are the timing mark has slipped.

(10) using a measuring tape or a simple piece of string, measure the distance between the inside edges of the tape and divide by two. If you are using a piece of string, put one end of the string on one of the inside edge of the tapes and sut the string to match the other inside edge. now fold it in half. In either method, the point is to find the exact center between the two tapes. This is your true TDC.

(11) Using as find a paintbrush as you can, or a chisel or some other indelible marking method, mark the midpoint between the two tapes. You want this to be permanent and accurate since this will be you new timing mark.

(12) For giggles, line up your new timing mark with the 0 degree mark on your timing tab and see where the old mark lines up. This is how many degrees your dampener has slipped!

I did this on my brother's 83 Dodge van (with a 225) and discovered that his vibration dampener had slipped 8 degrees! No wonder it got crappy gas mileage and poor performance.

Looking back, you said you are doing this to set the valves.

(1) Valves are properly adjusted with the motor HOT and running.

(2) If you are going to adjust the valves cold, the only thing you need to do is rotate the motor until both valve on the cylinder you are working on are fully closed and "loose" (will wiggle on the rocker arm shaft). It is easy to watch this with the valve cover off and the rocker arms moving.

And yes, when people say the rotor pointing at the #1 plug they are talking about the #1 plug tower on the cap.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Okay, I'm about to start this. What size/thread screw do I need to put in the dampner to hold the degree wheel?

Never mind. I found the post for the damper bolt. I have a bigger problem now.

A neighbor held a paint brush stick in the #1 spark plug hole on top of the piston as I turned the damper. Somehow the stick got stuck and a good sized piece broke off in the #1 piston shaft. How do I get it out without removing the cylinder head again. Could you use a compressor to suck it out? Help!

If you are lucky you may be able to suck it out with something like a shop vac. or maybe smoe really small needle nose pliers. Rotate the piston to TDC to improve your lick. I think you need to pull the head though.

The good news is that if you pull the head you can see exactly where TDC is and mark your dampener.

By the way, holding the paintbrush in the hole won't work. You don't have a guarantee that the stick will stop the piston in exactly the same spot. Accuracy counts here since you are measuring degrees.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

maybe a stiff wire with something sticky to grab the stick , then
you can pull it close to spark hole and hopefully pull it out.

hope you get the item out -- I've always used a light cloth(kleenex) partial shop towel-- put it in the no.1 drool tube & it will shoot out on the compression stroke---
You only need a small piece just enought to fill the cavity-- works for me Lawrence

Probably be esy to get if you do an adaption of 6shotvanners tip about using a fuel line piece (What a cool idea, BTW!) I woulduse a shop vac and create a duct tape made adapter to tie the tubing to the vacuum's hose...then put the tube in and vacuum it over to the plug hole...you may even get ot out. , If not, I'd carefully reach in with a small pick like a dental pick or a pick you make out of wire, and snag the piece. You should be able to feel what is going on, just don't be jabbing.

Sounds as if your wood piece got broken by being way in the hole as the piston came up and that you were rotating pretty fast. If you have one hadn on the piece in the hole and the other hand on the wrench truning the damper you can advance or retard a degree at a time. Just work slowly If you have your valve cover off when you are rotating the engine you can see the rocker arms move as one, none and both valves are open In compression, both are closed, again, 2 times out of 4 strokes. Even when both valves are closed and you can wiggle the rocker arms on #1, you still need to be able to adjust the damper in very small arcs. If you want to make it even easier, just pull out all the plugs to release compression while you work.

rock
'64d100

Is it possible to remove the rocker assembly and take off the #1 exhaust spring and reach down into the cylinder and retreive the broken piece without removing the cylinder head?