My car is still struggling to achieve factory caster of +1 deg. The line-up guy is turning the job into an art form, instead of just being able to dial in the correct settings becouse of this. One side of the car dose not have enough adjustment to be able to get past -1 deg.

Has anybody had experience with the after market tubular upper control arms. Will they correct a negative castor problem, or do I need to find a body shop friendly to old cars, and have the frame rail tweaked?

I have found two types of tubular arms. One stile such as Firm Feel's http://www.firmfeel.com/tubuca_a.htm claim +3-4 deg of caster. An other stile carried by Mancini Racing Enterprises has individually adjustable arms with up to +5 deg of caster so they say. The bushings on Mancini's unit are attached to a threaded rod with a lock nut, and can be screwed in or out of the tubular arm individually, where Firm Feel's is one welded unit. I'm currently experiencing a problem getting on Mancini's web site, so no hot link, sorry.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

IIRC, the ones Mancini sells are built by CAP.

http://www.capautoproducts.com/Control_Arms.html

Many places are selling tubular arms now, your choices should be almost unlimited.

MOOG also sells "Problem Solver" offset bushings for the UCA's that can get you some more caster.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

I use the MOOG ps bushings in all my stuff with factory arms. CAP makes nice stuff. Bill Reilly at Bigblockdart.com also does very good work, and I think he makes 'em too.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I installed the off-set bushings a fortnight ago on both sides. Still ain't cut'en it. I think I'm down to the big buck UCA's, or a big buck frame pulling party.

I'm guessing the CAP units require several adjustments before one discovers the correct setting. I don't know how I could know the correct setting unless the car is on a front end alignment machine at 70 bucks an hour, unless there is a back yard Red Neck method for measuring caster.

Mr cheapo here is experiencing a bit of a dilemma...

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Did you make sure to install the MOOG ps bushings NOT the way the directions say, but so that caster is maximized??

You need to the front one to push the UCA out and the rear to pull it in toward the body.

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I am running the RMS uca's. https://www.reillymotorsports.com I have run these on the street, daily driver for about 2 years. I can not say enough good things about them. They do give you a basic setting to get you close out of the box. I have the ones with the rod ends not the bushings. The threaded adjusters are for the "rough" adjustment, then the cams are used to set the final adjustment.

On a side note $70 an hour is not bad at all. Yes, aligning a car, especially an old Mopar, IS an art form. Well a cross between an art form and voodoo. That being said, they should agree on how much it will cost BEFORE they start charging you. You should also get a print out of before and after.

TopHat

I did install the NAPA excentric bushings as you recommeded; forward out, rear in, and picked up a good +3 deg. both sides. But, the front end guy ran out of voodoo pins acheiving only -1 deg. left, and +1 deg. right setting.

I may have mis spoke (a little political jargan), the shop charges a flat fee of 70 bucks per alignment. My car was on the rack for 2.5 hours, there were dead chickens all over the floor when they backed the car off the lift, even a few floating in a used oil drum. A faint hint of garlic was in the air too.

SpellCheck is off line, I will not be held responsable for any mis spellings in this post. There is that garlic smell again.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Sounds like you have a bent frame or some other serious problem if you can only get -1/+1 with the offset bushings. I have been able to get +3 - +6 with those bushings.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

ROTFLMAO

Has this car been "in align" before while you have owned it? Have you changed anything in the front suspension? How old are the front end parts, age and mileage?


TopHat

Tophat,

I purchased the car last week of February 2008, put it on the road after a total front end rebush mid May at which time I had the first alignment. The car showed 16,000 miles, and had a broken speedo cable. It had not been on the road for several years. The control arms look to be in good condition, not bent, and not excessively corroded for a New England car.

I did repair the dog leg section of the frame rail on both sides of the car starting at the torque boxes along to with in a few inches of the flexible brake line bracket. I suspect that this area may have deformed a bit, but was not noticeable when I fit the pre made frame rail patches.

During the May alignment, the front end guy discovered that one of the ears that holds the UCB was out of alignment with the other three where someone had done a bit of crude welding for an unknown reason.

The first alignment yielded caster readings left -4, and right -6 deg's. The guy spent a few hours dialing in the toe, and centering the steering wheel, camber was set correctly, and said it ain't right, but it won't wear tires. At that point I just drove the thing for the summer about 1500 miles not wanting to disassemble the front end once again so soon.

During the summer I found that there were eccentric correcting bushings for correcting caster problems, and before storing the heap for the winter I decided to retrofit the problem solver bushings on both sides and in addition installed new standard ride rear springs, sub frame connectors, torsion bars, and a front anti sway bar. At the same time I repaired the bad welding job and correctly aligned the bad ear. A new alignment yielded caster -1 deg. left, and +1 right. We are getting closer, but not good enough which brings us to this post.

For some reason the front end guy can't seem to get the factory ride correct, which I suspect changes the caster. How much or which direction the caster is changed by having one side of the up a half inch I can't tell.

I wish I had a Ron Popeal pocket front end alignment machine to flop out here at the house so I could see just what has to done to make the car right. My front end guy is not much of a detective.

Now I find there are tubular UCA of various designs that can add up 6 deg. of caster. If these units will get me an equal caster setting on both sides of +1 degree or more I can live with the situation.

Today I'm going to attempt to check the frame dimensions. The FM diagram for this is not well drawn or user friendly with measurements in 100ths. of an inch.

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

I would find another front end guy if he can't even measure ride height.

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

If the ride height won't stay set do you have a t-bar mount broken out of the K-frame?

Did you put new bushing in the lower A-arms?

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

To me it sounds like the car is no longer "square" but not real bad out. The first thing I would do is with the car on flat ground, wheels straight ahead, measure the wheel base. Measure from the exact center of the front hub to the exact center of the rear hub on each side. In a perfect world the measurements would be exactly the same, anything over 3/8" and I would start to be concerned. Measure it several times after driving the car and stopping it on a straight level spot. Average the results, if your method is good it will be very close each time. If you have a print out of your alignment, look at your thrust angle in the rear, it should be 0 degrees. However many degrees it is off + or - is how off the rear end is in the car. Modern alignment equipment references off the rear wheels to find the theoretical "center line" of the car, if the rear end is out then the car won't drive straight.

All of that being said.

I do think you could possibly, safely get enough adjustment to make the car drive straight with the uca's I mentioned above. However it may "dog track" and may not "look" straight going down the road from behind. A good way to get an idea about it is to have someone else drive your car and follow them down a straight stretch of road and see how the car looks. If it is noticeably "sideways" you have a problem that should be addressed by either straightening either the axle or the car.

A quick google of "at home alignment" did not really give much on setting caster at home. I take it you are trying to cure a pull?

TopHat

Tophat,

The car dose have a slight pull depending on road crown, it is not bothersome.

Difference from side to side wheel base is: Rt. 111 3/8" - L. 110 7/8" = 5/8"

Perhaps most of the difference in length is taking place in the front of the car. There is a 3/8" difference between the distance from tire tread to lower lip of front fender side to side. Yea, I know, sheet metal is not a good reference, but 5/8" is a lot.

How much dose caster angle change wheel base, as left side was 2 degrees less than right. Translation; the one wheel two degrees less in caster than to the other is closer to the back of the car, but by how much.

Thrust angle was -1 degree. I gather that 1 degree is off of a theoretical center line. Which way is negative, clock, or anti clock way? This would change wheel base perhaps a little less than +/-1/4" either side. Could this condition be corrected by shimming one rear spring's front mount to the rear?

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

One thing you might try, if you're willing, is take the car into a semi alignment shop, they do 4 wheel alignments all the time by chaining everything and pulling the frame straight on semi's. If your car isn't too bad, they'll be able to pull it straight. I had to do this on a GTX once upon a time, that car handled like a dream when they were done. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, I think I'll take my Dart down and have it 4 wheel aligned.

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1973 Dodge Dart, 225 SL6, 1986 Camaro Iroc-Z-28, 350, 5spd, 1978 Dodge w150, 360, 1966 Dodge Dart 270, 225 SL6