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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:28 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Mandeville, LA, USA
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Quote:
In either case, if the underhood was painted, it defenitely sounds like the grounding situation could use a check. The ground strap that bolts to the head and goes to the firewall is definitely an important part. I ground my EI units and voltage regulators there when they are in the vicinity. Otherwise, an extra strap to the inner fender, or battery will do.
Underhood was painted, and the ground strap from the head to the firewall is connected as it was originally when purchased new and last run. Should I scuff up the area on the firewall behind the ground strap screw?
Quote:
The pickup is tested easily. Grab your multimeter, disconnect the plug from the dizzy (should have a white and a brown wire on it), remove dizzy, then place each lead into the plug. Set your multimeter to 2000 Ohms.

Rotate the dizzy to where one of the star points (there are 6) so that none are pointed toward the magnetic pickup where the white/brown wires lead. Note resistance measurement. It should be a minimum of 300, but a higher number (up to 450 or so) will still work.
I disconnected the plug (the wires on mine are black and brown), removed the distributor from the block, set the multimeter to 2000 (not 2000k) and the reading was 433.
Quote:
Then rotate the dizzy so that one of the star points is lined up directly with the tip of the pickup coming out of the magnet (the black block). Note resistance there as well. The resistance should drop a significant amount (down to less than 100 ohms for sure). If they are close to within these ranges, you CAN but probably don't NEED to adjust the pickup.
While doing this test, the multimeter started at 430, jumped up to 600, then dropped to a negative number. Is this bouncing around what is to be expected? I did not receive a drop under 100.
Quote:
If the measurements are off, or if you want to set it anyways just to be sure, here is how you do it:

1. Get a Feeler Gauge set (can be found at any auto parts store)
2. Rotate the gauges until you come to the one that is .008".
3. Rotate the dizzy until a star point is lined up with the point on the magnet block.
4. Insert feeler gauge between the two points. If the feeler has some resistance to passing through the two points, they are probably ok. If it is too tight, loosen the flat-head screw and move the magnet away from the star point until the feeler gauge will pass through with little resistance. If it is too loose, then do the opposite, and move the magnet closer to the star point.
Have feeler gauges. Using .008 gauge, did #3 above. As #4 said, there was some resistance. My opinion is that it was not too tight, nor too loose.
Quote:
Then always spin the dizzy and make sure that none of the star points hit the magnet. If you really want to be thorough, check all of the star points against the magnet. You will want to set the gap with the feeler gauge to the one that is closest to the pickup to start with.
I spun it slowly looking closely and none of the star points hit the magnet. I then spun it faster observing the same. My eyesight sees that the star points are equally spaced/gapped. I did not change the gap with the feeler gauge.
Quote:
Let us know what your readings are!

~THOR~
I returned the distributor to the block. Did this test provide evidence the distributor is okay?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Board Sponsor
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:49 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: Salem, Oregon
Car Model: 1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Scuff it up and make sure there is clean metal on the firewall, and on the block where the other end hooks to.

The dropping to a negative number is a bit interesting, but I take that as a multimeter fault, not the distributor. It sounds like the measurements you have should be fine. It would be interesting to see what you get with a different (preferably better) multimeter.

Gap sounds ok to me as well.

I'd say the dizzy is in working order. On to the next step after grounding everything.

~THOR~

_________________
1984 D100 Shorty Custom
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:52 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Location: Hamilton the STEEL CITY, ON
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Quote:
While doing this test, the multimeter started at 430, jumped up to 600, then dropped to a negative number.
The resistance scale does not go into negative readings. it is either 0.0, or O.L with resistance readings inbetween. are you sure it was set at the resistance scale?

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I've been calling it as i see it for my entire life and that's not about to change. Take it or leave it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:47 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:07 pm
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
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While reading this thread, couldn't help but wonder if the plug wires are routed correctly 1-5-3-6-2-4 in a clockwise rotation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:23 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Mandeville, LA, USA
Car Model:
Quote:
While reading this thread, couldn't help but wonder if the plug wires are routed correctly 1-5-3-6-2-4 in a clockwise rotation.
On page 2 of this thread, I wrote:
Quote:
I have verified that all sparkplug wires are connected to the proper tower on the distributor. (Starting with rotor positioned under #1 tower of cap and rotating distributor clockwise 1-5-3-6-2-4) Engine still hasn't fired up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:02 am 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:27 am
Posts: 536
Location: Rawson,Australia
Car Model:
hi 74DartSport,
have you had any success with your engine yet?
got a progress report for us?

regards,Rod :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:04 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Mandeville, LA, USA
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Thor I am reviving this post. I did the voltage drop test. My multimeter was set on 20V and the reading was 0.13V. I assume this means the brown wire does not need replacing.
Quote:
This is something that D.I., Slantsixbob, and I had an issue with on his '72 Valiant. Turned out to be a bad coil primary wire.

One way to check is to put your multimeter on the 20V setting, then place one probe on the brown wire that is connected to the coil. Then place the other probe on the end that hooks to the ballast resistor.

Turn the ignition on to energize the circuit. If there is a voltage reading above .2v, then I would replace the coil primary wire (the brown one obviously). Once we figured that out on the Valiant, it back-fired right up!

This test is called a Voltage Drop test.

You are so close!


~THOR~
I have spent months trying to resolve my problem. I have drawn wiring diagrams and compared them to my 1973 FSM wiring section. Still will not fire up.
Quote:
It sounds like you have a bad connection somewhere in the coil power circuit. You should be getting at least 12 volts at the coil + terminal. If the motor turns over, you have no problems with any of the starting circuit. It sounds like your problem is somewhere in the coil power circuit.

Using your multimeter and a wiring diagram, start at the battery and trace the voltage level through the entire power circuit for the coil. Check voltage at the battery, the bulkhead connector on the firewall, the fuse box, the ignition switch (before and after the switch), the firewall connection (again), both sides of the ballast resistor, etc...

Note where the voltage drops from 12+ and start searching there for the short or bad connection.
Voltage readings:

Battery - 12.22 v
Battery relay - 12.22 v
Starter - 12.22 v
Fusible Link - 12.22 v
Wiring Harness (J) on bulkhead - 12.22 v
Underdash Firewall Harness (J) - 12.06 v
CI 5 Starter & Ignition Switch Connector on Steering Column - M16 20 BK had 12.01 v and J1 12R had 11.93 v
Back of Fuse 7 on Fusebox - 11.94 v
Back of Fuse 8 on Fusebox - 11.97 v
Key in RUN - 10.64 v at three of four terminals on ballast resistor (Terminal with Red w/ Green tracer only had 3.09 v).

This is as far as I have gotten tracing wires and volts. I am looking for a drop in voltage associated with faulty wiring. Where do I trace wires next. (I don't know how/where the wiring from underdash leads back to the engine/alternator/coil/distributor areas.) Please point me in this direction. Still not getting 12 volts at + coil. Jumper wire from (+) battery to (+) coil did not fire engine.

Starter still turns fine. Could a weak starter be my problem? Why no 12 volts at coil?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:06 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
You need to check the last 4' of the engine harness.......somewhere in there may be a burnt wire. Unravel the tape and check it carefully.
On my 74 I found several burnt wires that were touching lowering the voltage to the coil.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:56 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Mandeville, LA, USA
Car Model:
Quote:
You need to check the last 4' of the engine harness.......somewhere in there may be a burnt wire. Unravel the tape and check it carefully.
On my 74 I found several burnt wires that were touching lowering the voltage to the coil.
I can do this. Are you talking about the engine harness that runs along the firewall, the wire harness that runs along the valve cover over to the coil, alternator. Where in the harness were your burnt wires. GOOD ADVISE TED. I hoped to avoid this but I am out of options.

Someone look at my above post and tell me where the voltage goes and comes back into the engine compartment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13095
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
I see your car is a 74. I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but have you disabled the seatbelt interlock system?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:34 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Pennsylvania
Car Model:
I second checking harness. Burnt wires suck

_________________
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:57 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Mandeville, LA, USA
Car Model:
Quote:
I see your car is a 74. I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but have you disabled the seatbelt interlock system?
Not disabled. It works and I do plug in the seatbelt every time to crank the car. Once its plugged in, turn the key, and the starter spins.

I just went and bought an inline spark checker. This morning I ran a jumper from the + battery to the + coil terminal and sprayed aerosol starter fluid down the carb. Still no fire up. I suspect no spark at the sparkplugs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13095
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Try pressing the bypass switch the next time you try starting it up. Or, just disable the system by unplugging the wires that go to your seats.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
74DartSport,
Quote:
Are you talking about the engine harness that runs along the firewall, the wire harness that runs along the valve cover over to the coil, alternator. Where in the harness were your burnt wires.
Mine burnt at about midpoint along the valve cover. The alternator wire got hot and melted through to the oil sender and coil wires. I was getting less than 4.5 volts to the coil at an idle. Now I am getting 10 volts. You can unplug it right behind the valve cover and pull it out. I purchased the stock terminal ends at our local Auto Parts store and replaced each wire on wire at a time. That piece last four feet can receive allot of heat and abuse so its good insurance to replace it. Take your time and solder the wires. Wrap it in black tape and use 1/2" diameter flexible conduit and a few insulated pipe clamps to hold it off the valve cover bolts. That way it will stay cooler.

Click on the link below and you can see how I ran it along the valve cover. I bought the conduit, but haven't run it yet.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:54 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:47 pm
Posts: 236
Location: Mandeville, LA, USA
Car Model:
Quote:
Mine burnt at about midpoint along the valve cover. The alternator wire got hot and melted through to the oil sender and coil wires. I was getting less than 4.5 volts to the coil at an idle. Now I am getting 10 volts. You can unplug it right behind the valve cover and pull it out. I purchased the stock terminal ends at our local Auto Parts store and replaced each wire on wire at a time. That piece last four feet can receive allot of heat and abuse so its good insurance to replace it. Take your time and solder the wires. Wrap it in black tape and use 1/2" diameter flexible conduit and a few insulated pipe clamps to hold it off the valve cover bolts. That way it will stay cooler.
I just tested plugs wires 1, 2, and 3 with a sparkplug tester. I pulled the wire off the plug, plugged the sparkplug terminal into the plug wire, adjusted the gap on the tester and grounded the ground wire as the instructions stated. I ran a jumper from the + battery to the + coil terminal. Prior to cranking, I had 11.4 volts at the coil + terminal. I tried three attempts to crank the car, yet there was no spark on the sparkplug tester. WHY?

Should I buy new sparkplug wires or rewire the harness along the valve cover as Ted advised me. What do I need to rule out first?

I have changed everything except the sparkplug wires, coil to distributor high tension wire, distributor, and harness wires.


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