Hey all,

Been reading all of the messages and doing plenty of research BEFORE I begin any mods to my car. I've got a mint (color and quality!) '77 Dodge Aspen, Special Edition with matching green vinyl interior. I love the 70's

Anyway, it currently has a 1 barrel 225 in it, and I really want to give the engine better breathing and a bit of power. My plan so far is a basic Super Six:

-Switch to a 2 barrel intake and carb (dual carb or 2 singles?)
-Port and polish the heads
-Put on a bigger exhaust pipe, maybe switch to headers or dutra duals.

Mainly, I am looking for a well-powered, good mileage cruiser. This car will not be raced, is properly stored, and is considered my weekend driver.

What else would you recommend? How would you proceed? I am new to fixing up an engine (but am mechanically inclined and able), so want to keep this straightforward. I've heard some guys talk about changing the gears in rear - currently I think it is 2.73... how hard is it to change the rear dif?

Just fishing for knowledge here - all of your input is welcome!





A few more minor things...
-should I just skip the 2 barrel and go to 4?
-Should I overbore the cylinders? Lighten pistons?
-Does anyone have a complete super six kit?[/img]

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'77 Dodge Aspen SE, /6 2225, 1 bbl

banter,

Welcome! Needless to say there is allot to learn about these engines.

I came at the subject like you with lots of questions, but over the last four years boiled down the needs a little more. Under "engine builds" look for "torque and mileage". This is a recipe that Doc, Doug Dutra gave me to follow. There are allot of little things that you can do will really wake up the SL6 and make it allot more powerful and fun to drive. Mine in stock form used to be a real slug........

1. 2 1/4" exhaust and a free flowing muffler, such as a 18" Magna Flow, however, there are many others glass packs, Super Hemi Turbo by Dynomax, etc.
2. A distributor recurve. This is a big one that will change performance allot!
3. Gas line mod and carb shielding via a heat deflector. This helps minimize heat soak.
4. Ram air to bring cold air into the carb
5. Raising the compression to 9 to 1.
6. Electric fan for faster warm ups and better mileage
7. Water injection - keeps the engine running clean and throttle response crisp
8. etc.....the guys will have lots of suggestions

The Super Six is a great mod. for a few more HP. My car came with the 1945 Holley like yours however, I found the 1920 Holley Economaster much simpler and consistent for a one barrel. The two (1) barrel combination will take some fine tuning to get it right. You could go to a four barrel manifold and make adapter plates so you can run a one, two or four barrel carb on it.

You need to determine what rear end you have 7 1/4 or 8 1/4.
I built mine from a old "C" body which uses an 8 3/4 differential which is removable. That way you can change gears in about one hour. If you don't beef up the engine too much the 2.73 7 1/4 rear end will last a long time. Mine didn't because I drive 130 miles a day and half of it is on twisty back roads. I went through (3) 7 1/4 rears in 5 years. That is with all new bearings in each one. The planetary gears would self destruct and I would crack the bearing race.

Click on the red link below my name. Once your in, double click on the picture to put into full screen slide show mode. That should give you a few ideas.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Ted - thanks for distilling some of that down.. I looked at your photos, and it seems like Doctor Dutra gave you a good recipe. I think I want to follow something very much along those lines, so I looked into a couple more of those items...

...and have a few more questions..

1 - Distributor recurve.. this seems best to do once I've changed compression, exhaust/intake, etc...

2 - to increase compression, to about 9to1 (is that good for a weekend driver?) - I would need to bore and polish the cylinders and get stock replacement pistons, right? People have also mentioned milling the cylinder head.. that is taking some of the extra metal of the base of the head, right? how does that increase the compression ratio?

As for the correct cam to match the new compression, how do you figure out which type to select?

3- gas line mod - what are you modifying? Is this bringing the fuel hose over that heat shield?

5-water injection - this whole system is novel to me. Is it all aftermarket stuff bolted into the engine bay? What is it used to cool down, and what is the fuel/water separator filter I saw on your photos?

6- fans and cooling. You mentioned two - The first is an electric fan for faster warmups, where is this one? And about the cold ram intake - is there already a port, and you just need to install a fan, or is this process changing the ducting?

Thanks again - I'm still looking, planning etc. Oh, one last quick thing - what kind/size of tires do you run?

_________________
'77 Dodge Aspen SE, /6 2225, 1 bbl

banter, 1. You can do the distributor recurve any time. You don't have to wait to do a rebuild. My stock distributor was very sloppy. One weight was partially hanging out (spring was a medium but super weak) so I was loosing some of the mechanical advance. It only registered 10 degrees of mechanical advance when it can produce 30 degrees stock. The grease had hardened between the advance plate and wouldn't move freely either. The spring posts were rotated all the way in, so it was never tuned and the vacuum pod was never tuned. It was screwed in all the way. My engine used to ping just looking at it wrong..... it was a real slug. I could never figure out how to keep it from pinging. I ran it a zero degrees initial per the book. With the low timing and low compression it was pretty gutless. So do a recurve and wake up your motor......

2. Depending on the cylinder wear, it will dictate if you need to bore the engine. I had mine bored .030 over stock since it was over 355,000 miles. We bought .030 over pistons and Teflon coated them.
I had some taken off the block since it was twisted and not flat on top when they went to bore the cylinders. I also switched to a 78 truck head so I could use the peanut plugs, not drool tubes so the engine stays super clean. I wanted to run synthetic oil and minimize potential leaks, I also had the head milled since it had been over heated and twisted in the opposite direction from the block. I ended up with 9.5 compression which is fine for a daily driver. However, I wish I had gone a full 10 to 1 for more low end torque.

On cam selection you need to decide if you want mileage and low end torque or no torque and lots of HP. Check your rear end ratio. I ran a 3.23 for a long time but wanted a few extra mpg since I drive 130 miles a day. So I had a 2.76 posi built by Randy's Ring and Pinion. With the taller gears you need all the torque you can get at low rpms. I rarely drive over 2500 rpm which is a little over 60 mph.., So I had my old cam reground to a taller lift for more flow. It is a stump puller cam that was used in trucks hauling campers and trailers. It is nick named a RV cam for Recreational Vehicles.
You can run any cam you want. Don't worry about selecting a specific cam for a certain compression ratio. Get one to meet your needs. If you do go with a big cam you also need to lower the rear end ratio because of the lack of torque.

3. The stock gas line runs around the front of the engine block and gets pretty darn hot pre-heating the gas and sometimes causing hard starting after heat soak. Yes, rerouting the fuel line over the valve cover helps to reduce the problem. The fact that it's not metal, and the fact that it doesn't touch the engine block makes a difference. The heat shield under the carb is something I made to keep the front runner warmer and to keep the fuel bowl from getting too hot.

4. I have run after market water injection systems, but I built this one to keep the engine clean. It melts away the carbon in the engine and keeps it nice and clean inside. It also helps to get better fuel mileage. Throttle response is super crisp and the idle is awesome, no misfire.

5. A fuel water separator is the first thing you install when buying a boat with a outboard or gas engine. The fuel tanks always condensate and collect water. Same with diesel trucks and boats. Our local gas station has some old tanks and water is a problem. So no more pulling the carb apart to clean it out........it filters down to the 2 micron level. The ethanol in the gas also eat your rubber fuel lines. With the filter it keeps the chunks of rubber out. I have replaced almost all the old rubber line with fuel injection hose. The engine idles great! not like most slants........

6. Just one fan as you see in the pictures. It's a 16" PRO Comp I bought off eBay 3 years ago for $30.00. I have a great fool proof wiring diagram if you need it. Send me your email.

7. My car had no hose or ram air. Just a stock air cleaner. Cold ram air is from behind the grill. I had to use a 3.5" hole saw to make the hole. Bought a RV trailer fitting and mounted it. A stock 1980 carb intake hose fits perfect. That is a 1980 truck air cleaner.

8. Tire sizes are P225 60R mounted on 14 x 7" rims. BF Goodrich T/A's

That should just about cover all your questions.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Teds build is really nice. If your bottom end is good and you need to save some dollars then just mill your head some to bring your compression up to 9-1. I personally would install 1.70/1.44 Engine Builder valves, these oversize valves are good and will really wake up your slant.
Just 4 things can really get you going.
Super six
Head work
Dizzy recurve
Larger exhaust
My02.
Frank

_________________
Scrapple: Because a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
73 Duster - Race Car
66 Dart Wagon - DD
178" FED
82 D150
All Slant powered

Thanks guys. I really appreciate how much you're helping out this beginner. This stuff gets complicated quick. Hehe.

I'm thinking about scaling the project to the following major elements:

-Full super six setup
-Reroute gas line and install carb heat shield (Ted: did you make your own bracket? what type, thickness of alu?)
-install dutra duals (using the mod. to my one existing manifold)
-new exhaust pipe (2.25), and probably a glasspack/magnaflow.
-recurve distributor. anyone have a good thread or instructions?
-electric fan to replace radiator's current fan.. you remove the fan from the belt, and bolt a separate fan box on the radiator, right?

One option I'm still looking into is the water injection/filtration. When you write water injection - is that the same as the permacool fuel/water separator? Do they run on the same reservoir or is it altogether one system?

And - is there any chance I have this system installed in the car already? There's a canister in the front left of the engine bay that looks suspiciously like your vapor canister. Sorry I am a such a noob.



-A lot of people mention NGK spark plugs... I'm not sure what plugs are in my engine now, probably stock - but is this worth checking out/upgrading?

-The cold air ram - was exploring, and I already have this setup, pulling air from behind the the left headlight.


Essentially, I'm looking to let it all breather better and faster.. I think this should do it pretty well. For now, I'll hold off on overboring and decking the head.. That would benefit most from a better breathing system, I think.

But when I start work on the super six and other pieces, are there any other upgrades you all can think of that I *must* do while I've got the engine open that far?

Thanks again.

Ps.
anyone have an exploded diagram of a slant six?
more pics of "green envy": http://www.flickr.com/photos/whatisleft ... 444066097/[/img]

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'77 Dodge Aspen SE, /6 2225, 1 bbl

nice looking car

_________________
Nothing beats a slant six
1987 D150

Nice F-body! Of course, I may be a bit biased, as I own two F-bodies.
I think you have a good idea for what you want to do with your car.
With my '78 Volare, I have cleaned up much of the engine compartment; as in there is much less stuff under the hood now. It looks nicer in my opinion, and its easier to work on.
Have fun!

_________________
"Ja, Ich fahre ein altes auto."
'78 Volare 225
'67 Charger 318

Thanks Jason and Wesola. Appreciate the comments!

Wesola - what do you mean by cleaning up the engine compartment? Bundling wires, etc? what else can you do?

Any suggestions for my build up? I'm about to purchase my dual barrell intake and carb. Guess I'll have to get the other little pieces on e-bag and here!

Cheers

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'77 Dodge Aspen SE, /6 2225, 1 bbl

banter,
1. On the heat shield, Yes, it is .090 aluminum from the K&S rack at your local Hobby shop or Hardware store.
2. Getting a 18" Magnaflow installed tomorrow. 2.25" is a good size pipe to run.
3. Do a search on the distributor curve instructions. Doc posted 4 .jpgs that describe the process. If you can't find and down load them, send me your email.
4. The fan you see in my pictures, just click on the red link below my name, is a ProComp off eBay. Been working just fine the last years. Only $30.00 so I got two, one for a spare. No shroud required, but if should have one I am sure it would help.
5. The Perma-Cool fuel water separator is to keep the water and gas line chunks out of the carb. Ethanol eats your lines....so you need to switch over to fuel injection line. It is a totally separate filter right after the fuel pump. it replaces the little line filter that you see on most engines. They are stock on a diesel truck or gas/diesel boat engines. It has nothing to do with water injection.
6. Water injection is just to keep the valves and cylinder clean, no carbon build up for a super smooth hick-up free idle. It only comes on after 2000 rpm. It goes straight into the side of the carb body above the venturi booster.
7. No, the canister your referring to is to catch gas vapors after you shut off the engine. The carb pulls them back in the next time you drive it.

That should cover it!

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Maybe this is it?

http://www.dutra.org/doug/draft-webpage ... ibutor.htm

Danny

Danny,

That is it! Good work.

Now get yourself a MOPAR spring kit from bigslant6fan and have fun!

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Thanks again all! Will hopefully recurve my distro in the next week or two, then get on to swapping in the intake and new carb... Will the engine perform weakly/badly if I increase the intake and wait a week or two before switching to dutra duals and a bigger pipe? I guess I'm asking if I should do intake and exhaust at the same time...

_________________
'77 Dodge Aspen SE, /6 2225, 1 bbl

banter,
No it won't perform badly. You can take your time......
The recurve is one project and to get it dialed in,
the two barrel swap is another and getting it dialed in, hopefully you can find a good performing carb.
Building the "Y" pipe for the Dutra's is another.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Banter, I believe that your '77 Aspen is still required to pass the California emissions test every 2 years. That means no modifications, if you intend to be street legal.

You could re-curve the distributor, then keep a proven stock replacement handy in order to pass the test.

I understand that you can do some interesting mods to the 1-barrel carburetor, then also swap it out for the test.

The super 6 upgrade is out. Changes to your exhaust are probably out. You might get away with the HEI upgrade, if it is installed carefully.

Sorry to deliver the bad news. You better check with the DMV before spending another penny.

Anybody else got info on this?