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 Post subject: Does your dart have....
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 9:23 pm 
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Do you have fender mounted turn signal indicators? If so the hose to the driver's side fender is for the 'Fuel Pacer' system (pretty useless...).
The EGR can be kept to block off the hole in the exhaust manifold, but if you flip it 180 degrees it'll block up the passages better in case yours is 'stuck' slightly open.... The EGR hose should be connected to a temp control switch either on the radiator or on the thermostat housing in the head at the front of the slant. Back Track that hose and unplug all of it (you can temporarily put a screw in the hose to the vacuum booster to plug it until you are ready to remove the rest of the assembly). You can also get 'plug' kits for $1 at you local auto parts store to cap any vaccuum hose connections on the carb...

If I get time later this weekend and snap some pics of my 74 bay to show you what you need/ can plug...


-D.Idiot


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:58 pm 
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I found a Super Six setup from a truck that has a factory EGR blockoff plate.

I don't think the emissions equipment is really a big issue when its working properly. The mild factory camshaft profile has a greater effect on performance. If you use a camshaft with a lot of overlap you'll get the same effect as EGR -- exhaust will be mixed with fuel charge.

The charcoal cannister is to collect vapar that might evaporate into the atmosphere. I believe the factory elimination of the spark plug tubes in '75 was an attempt to reduce the points where vapors could be released into the atmosphere.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 9:56 pm 
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I hope to free my motor if its restraints tomorrow. At this point, is there anything I mentioned that I have to LEAVE? :twisted: I guess I'll wait as long as I need until I feel comfortable knowing what to take out from what you've said, but I'd like to get at it tomorrow... -typing my mind here


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 12:08 pm 
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Zorg,

if the weather hasn't driven you inside yet, here are some pics of my 74 with the vaccuum amplifier and other items removed/disabled...

Image

In the current trim, keeping the pcv valve hooked up to the carb, and the crankcase vent hooked to the air cleaner keeps things looking stock and running well....note the vacuum amplifier is gone and no longer a source of leaks...

At this point, I also removed the hose to the manifold vacuum port and capped it 'redneck style', if you have power brakes, keep the hose going to the brake reservoir on the driver's side firewall...



Image

like wise, this switch just tells the EGR when the engine(if on the head) or the radiator (in this case) is at the right temp to activate it....pull the hoses and leave it...

Image


My car has a manual 3 spd so my Holley has no kickdown linkage, etc...your 76 may have some other 'gizmos' for idle control, that go from a port on the carb to some 'can' on the carb, leave those alone...


Image


My finger is pointing to the port where you should have a hose going from carb straight to the distributor vacuum advance, if there is any 'rerouting' like through the OSAC port on the air filter can, get a straight peice of hose and remove that 'detour'....going clock wise, the big hose goes to the 'purge' connection on the charcoal cannister and can be left alone, you may also have another large hose coming out of the top of the carb and connected to the charcoal cannister that is the carb bowl vent line...leave it alone. at the 8 o'clock position was a ported vacuum line that should be capped(like the redneck hose cap I'm using....using a vacuum cap kit from NAPA,etc is easier and looks better...)
The large line at the 9 o'clock position is the PCV line, leave it alone....

You can also see that I have removed the hose from the EGR valve nipple, in this picture...you may leave it that way, but it might be better to either plate that off, or get a gasket and rebolt it back on 'flipped' upside-down so the ports no longer line up (in case the valve is slightly stuck open... or damaged)...

That should cover 90% of the job, if you have a fuel pacer system, (little white plastic item attached to the driver's side fender, with a vaccuum line attached to it, you can pull the line off it, but you may get a side effect of having the driver's side fender mounted turn signal permanently lit....


Disclaimer: These instructions are a guideline for informational purposes only, and are in no way the gospel. Also it is illegal according to Federal Law to disable any emissions equipment and slantsix.org, nor am I responsible for any 'penalties' resulting from the use/misuse of this information. :)


good luck,

-D.Idiot


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 Post subject: H'mm...
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 5:42 pm 
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There's considerable misunderstanding of what the various emission controls do, how they work, how they affect engine performance, driveability and efficiency, and the wisdom of altering or disconnecting them. Just because it's an "emission control" does not make it "junk" and does not mean your car will work better if you remove or disable it. Just pulling wires and disconnecting vacuum hoses and dismantling emissions equipment willy-nilly is seldom a productive way to improve driveability, fuel economy, or anything else.

So, here's a rundown on the major systems, what they do, and what they don't:

PCV, Positive Crankcase Ventillation. Definitely a good thing. Keeps the inside of the engine much cleaner than the road draft tube system that came before (through 1960 in California, through 1961 in New York, through 1962 in the rest of North America). PCV reduces engine oil consumption and contamination compared to the old road-draft system. An engine that has no crankcase ventillation system because the PCV system has been disabled (for example by installing two breathers instead of a breather and a PCV valve) will get very dirty inside, very quickly, and will stink. Make sure this system is intact and in good repair.

EGR, Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is a system that routes a small amount of exhaust into the intake tract to be inducted into the engine along with the fresh fuel/air mixture charge. This is done to reduce peak combustion chamber temperature: even though the exhaust is hot, it is mostly inert (cannot burn) and so the peak heat in the combustion chamber is reduced. This, in turn, lowers the amount of NOx, a toxic and dangerous constituent of engine exhaust.

The first EGR system, installed on 1972 California models, was a simple orifice (hole) in the floor of the intake manifold allowing exhaust to leak into the intake through the hot spot or crossover already present to heat the intake manifold. This early system seriously degraded driveability, idle smoothness, ease of starting, performance, and economy. For 1973, the system was improved considerably with a valve to allow or block the flow of exhaust into the intake manifold. The valve is operated by engine vacuum, which is appied depending on engine temperature and engine load (determined by manifold vacuum level). Nevertheless, in early applications including most '73-'77 cars, this system can still reduce performance and economy. It can also control pinging, but the early control systems are pretty primitive and not very precise. They can often be tweaked using more recent parts for much better control so they don't take a bite out of performance or economy; the system improved with engineers' experience, and once they could control EGR precisely enough for it to work for them instead of against them, it became a useful tool for reducing the tendency for spark knock while allowing more compression and timing advance for good driveability and economy. You can update to a more advanced type of EGR valve that is a direct bolt-on. Standard #EGV490; RockAuto's usually got them available for low cost, and you can knock that down further with those 5% RockAuto discount codes that are always floating around. This valve has a backpressure transducer that modulates vacuum to the EGR valve to match EGR flow rate better to the engine load. Takes a smaller bite out of driveability than the non-transducer type valve.

Some cars originally equipped with EGR will tend to ping if the EGR is disconnected; in most cases this can be addressed by reducing the initial spark advance. If you can't clear up the ping without setting the basic timing at or after TDC (ATDC), though, it's best to rework the distributor's advance curves so as to allow a base timing setting of between 2½° and 8° before TDC (BTDC).

ECS, Evaporation Control System. This consists of your fuel tank, fuel tank cap, carburetor bowl vent and charcoal cannister (on '72-up models. '70-'71 models with ECS used the engine crankcase as a storage place for fuel vapors). This system is completely beneficial — it lets you keep and burn costly gasoline that would otherwise float off into the atmosphere. It takes away absolutely nothing from engine efficiency. It improves safety by making the fuel system a "closed" system. There is no good reason to disconnect or tamper with this system, and doing so in a thoughtless or improper manner creates real safety problems. This system, too, ought to be kept intact and in good repair. Here again, though, the early ('70-'71) system can best be described as "a start"; things got better in '72. See here for detailed info on both systems and discussion of upgrades.

OSAC, Orifice Spark Advance Control. Now here is one that takes a giant bite out of driveability, performance, and fuel economy. This system was designed to squeak the cars cheaply past the Federal emissions type approval test so they could be offered for sale. It delays vacuum to the distributor vacuum advance by 7 to 17 seconds, which means lower NOx emissions but also hesitation, mushy acceleration, and poor fuel economy. This is a very easy device to bypass. There's a hose that runs from the carburetor to the OSAC valve (on the passenger side of the firewall in '73, on the air cleaner body starting in '74), and from the OSAC valve to the distributor. To find it, follow the vacuum hose from the distributor to the OSAC valve. To bypass it, simply connect a vacuum line between the carburetor and the distributor, leaving the OSAC valve out of it. You will find an immediate improvement in driveability and mileage.

Air pump ("smog pump"), properly called secondary air injection. This pump takes almost zero power to spin, does not reduce driveability or economy, and substantially cleans up the exhaust. Usually best to leave it alone, though
the early systems (there's that phrase again!) pumped air full-time into the exhaust ports in the cylinder head whenever the engine was running. This makes the exhaust valves and the whole head run hotter, so that's something to bear in mind when deciding whether to keep it. However, if your car is a '75 or newer model with a catalytic converter, don't remove or disable the air injection system. If you do, the catalyst will overheat, melt down, and block off your exhaust flow (and perhaps start a nice fire).

TAC, Thermostatic Air Cleaner. This is the air cleaner that has a flexible stovepipe duct running down to a sheetmetal shroud surrounding a portion of the exhaust manifold. This system, too is 100% beneficial. Leave this in place and make sure it's properly working! It improves cold and hot driveability, performance and fuel economy compared to a plain old-fashioned air cleaner assembly.

Catalytic converter: Unlike General Motors' highly restrictive pellet-type converters of the 1970s and early '80s, Chrysler used reasonably good-flowing monolithic ones right from the start, and the ones available in the aftermarket today are even better in terms of flow and efficiency. Catalytic converters aren't a very good mix with carburetors, especially in pre-1981 applications that don't use an oxygen sensor and computer-controlled carburetor to try and maintain a stoichiometric fuel/air ratio, which is the only mix that creates exhaust a catalytic converter can efficiently clean up without heating up to the meltdown point. Still, the exhaust from a catalytic-equipped car is far less toxic even without feedback mixture control.

Picking a replacement converter is fairly easy. You need one with heavy catalyst loading (to clean up the extra-dirty, poorly-controlled exhaust) and robust substrate (to handle the extra-high heat that comes from operating with poorly-controlled exhaust). It's difficult to find a 2-way (HC/CO) converter any more; you tend to find only the 3-way items (HC/CO/NOx) that have been standard equipment since 1981. The NOx reduction doesn't work very efficiently at all with non-stoichiometric exhaust, but it can work somewhat to add extra oxygen (one of the products of the reduction reaction) which then helps a little with the HC/CO oxidation reaction. Some Chrysler vehicles have small converters located in the headpipe right off the exhaust manifold in addition to the larger under-floor converter; if your local regulations allow (or are silent on the particular matter), you can install regular headpipes and a modern efficient 3-way catalyst under the floor. .

So: a converter meant for a heavy-duty truck with a large engine in California. See here for more detailed info.

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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:28 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 10:56 pm 
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Good post! 8)


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 11:18 pm 
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One "side note" on the charcoal can, I have seen them "break" and send fine charcoal into the carb. Put a fuel filter in the hose going to the carb bowl vent as a safety measure. Get the large 3/8 type with a clear plastic body, (Hastings) this makes it easy to see if the charcoal "sack" has ruptured and is sending charcoal into the system..
DD


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 Post subject: is it anything??
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:14 pm 
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OK, so we have established that some of the smog stuff is good, and others are not so good. the air pump is not bad in itself, but what about the hose that ties it in to the exhaust system and what it ties in to? there is a large cansiter that my exhaust runs into just coming out of the manifold, is this the Cat. or is it something else? there is a cat underneath the car, do mopars have dual cats like a ford product? if not, whats in the box under the manifold? and, if i remove it to run free flowing exhaust, what will i tie the airpump hose to?

i know these may sound like dumb questions, but i have not modified much stuff newer than the early 70's, so all this polution stuff is new to me. in my experience, we just did away with all of it and ran it in our 60's stuff like it was supposed to be run! help me out here guys.

i have a stock 80 model with a standard trans. what i want to do is convert to a super six intake, Holly 500 2V carb, mitusbishi starion turbo and intercooler and a 75 hp N2O set up, all which l already have. before i install any of this stuff, i want to get the motor running as good as possible before i install the blower. any tips?

greg


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 10:05 pm 
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It was I that said the engine felt peppier. By disconnecting the line that goes from the T fitting on the vacuum advance line to the canaster, you get ride of what is basicly a vacuum leak. With the vacuum advance line left to be totaly dedicated to the vacuum advance, it felt as though the advance came on sooner and fuller. I checked with my timing light with adjustable advance dial (or what ever you call it) and sure enough, the timing advanced more than with the purge line (the line coming from the T fitting) connected.


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 Post subject: bummer
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 10:59 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Thanks guys. I checked Wa. state laws about emissions control disconections, and didn't find anything. But if it's against federal law (something I didn't check), then I guess I'm stuck for now. I'd like to swap to a built 198 some day, so I'll start poluting then... About how much $ would I need for a mild 198? I'm still in high school, so I'm just trying to figure out how long I need to save for. Anyone have one for cheap?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 2:59 pm 
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Quote:
By disconnecting the line that goes from the T fitting on the vacuum advance line to the canaster, you get ride of what is basicly a vacuum leak.
If there was a vacuum leak (basic or otherwise) at the purge valve, then it's because the purge valve diaphragm had ruptured. The best fix here is a replacement part, not the dismantling of a beneficial and safety-improving system.


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:04 pm 
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Quote:
OK, so we have established that some of the smog stuff is good, and others are not so good. the air pump is not bad in itself, but what about the hose that ties it in to the exhaust system and what it ties in to? there is a large cansiter that my exhaust runs into just coming out of the manifold, is this the Cat. or is it something else? there is a cat underneath the car, do mopars have dual cats like a ford product? if not, whats in the box under the manifold? and, if i remove it to run free flowing exhaust, what will i tie the airpump hose to?
Sounds like you have a California or High-Altitude car. These cars (as well as certain 49-state/low-altitude cars) did have dual converters. This is a more restrictive system than is desireable for best performance and driveability. What you do to rectify that depends on whether you are required to pass emissions tests, whether you may be required to pass such tests in the future, and whether you care how clean or dirty is the gunk coming out of your car's tailpipe.

If you want to continue running a catalytic converter, replace the dual setup with a single "Three Way With Air" aftermarket converter. It will have a fitting for the air injection, and will do a much better job of cleaning up the exhaust, while creating less restriction.

If you don't want to continue running a catalytic converter, just install plain pipes. You can remove the metal air injection pipework and put a screw-in muffler for a lawnmower engine (true!) in the end of the rubber tube coming off the air pump to muffle the noise.

Be advised that whatever laws your state may have about emissions testing and equipment, it is Federally illegal to remove a catalytic converter from a car of *any* age that was originally equipped with one, except for the purpose of replacing a clogged or dead one with a new one.


i know these may sound like dumb questions, but i have not modified much stuff newer than the early 70's, so all this polution stuff is new to me. in my experience, we just did away with all of it and ran it in our 60's stuff like it was supposed to be run! help me out here guys.

i have a stock 80 model with a standard trans. what i want to do is convert to a super six intake, Holly 500 2V carb, mitusbishi starion turbo and intercooler and a 75 hp N2O set up, all which l already have. before i install any of this stuff, i want to get the motor running as good as possible before i install the blower. any tips?


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:26 pm 
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Does anyone have a link to a page that has the "actual law." I've searched all over and have seen many references to it, but haven't been able to find IT. The only thing close just talked about dealers and repair shops, nothing personal. I'd like to read what it says. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 4:32 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Well Dan, I guess we should agree to disagree. I have had my canaster off for 3 years now and have had no adverse affects. These engines ran fine without it before '72 and had open vents in the fuel tank and the carbs. venting under the hood. With less and less of these old cars on the road, they do not contribute as much pollution into the atmosphere as all the newer cars (and SUV's) that are on the road now. Thus, I feel no guilty pangs over removing the canaster. I still have the crank case breather and PCV valve hooked up, so its not like I don't have any pollution devices hooked up. :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:29 pm 
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Quote:
I have had my canaster off for 3 years now and have had no adverse affects.
None that you've taken the time to measure. Your fuel economy is down, your evaporative emissions are way up, and your car is considerably less safe.
Quote:
These engines ran fine without it before '72 and had open vents
Of course. The difference is that the fuel tank vent system was specifically designed to be open. The '71 and later ('70 and later in California) cars with evap systems were specifically designed to be closed. It is certainly possible to remove the evap system safely, but unless you know exactly what you're doing and how best to do it, just disconnecting the canister is not a safe thing to do. It creates a very real fire hazard. I'm glad you haven't had a fire so far, but you should not be lulled into a false sense of safety.

As for the effect upon engine performance, it's clear from your posts that you noticed a performance increase because your evap system was in disrepair -- not simply because it existed. A disconnected system may give better driveability than a broken system, but a correctly-working system is better than either a broken or a disconnected system.

So no, I'm afraid I do not agree with you.[/i]


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