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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:38 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:35 am
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I hope you are able to sort this out. Good suggestions here.


Last edited by Kevin Johnson on Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:15 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 396
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
Main bearings remain the original factory bearings with 60k miles on both Darts.

New rear main seal was the only change as far as the mains were concerned for both Darts.

Rods bearings were changed since the originals were at max clearance. for both Darts.....maybe SL-6 may wear the rod bearings faster then the mains?

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Guru
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 pm
Posts: 4880
Location: Working in Silicon Valley, USA
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As already noted, all aftermarket oil pumps do not come with an anti-dranback valve.
It is an easy task to install one, then see if that solves the problem.
DD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:58 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
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Location: North America
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Quote:
Main bearings remain the original factory bearings with 60k miles on both Darts. Rods bearings were changed since the originals were at max clearance. for both Darts.....maybe SL-6 may wear the rod bearings faster then the mains?
You have a lot of inexpensive, easy things to do before you pay any heed to a spurious assertion that your bearings are shot.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:21 pm
Posts: 1391
Location: long beach ca
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Main bearing knock? that goes away?I highly doubt its a main.I would check pressure relief valve first and put 1 washer under the spring.Mark


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:21 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:35 am
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Quote:
Main bearings remain the original factory bearings with 60k miles on both Darts. Rods bearings were changed since the originals were at max clearance. for both Darts.....maybe SL-6 may wear the rod bearings faster then the mains?
You have a lot of inexpensive, easy things to do before you pay any heed to a spurious assertion that your bearings are shot.

Yes, you're right.


Last edited by Kevin Johnson on Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:01 am 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
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Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:36 pm
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Location: East Arkansas
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Easy guys.
I think you should Always be prepared to replace necessary componants when you work on an engine. No matter how small the original task.
Frank

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73 Duster - Race Car
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:50 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: Pertneer Nashville TN
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I like Dan's idea on the thinner oil. 15-40 Valvoline in my van clatters in the cold weather.

I do have a piston slap on #2 (360) It has been there since I built it 170K ago. It lessens and disappears with warming of the engine.

_________________
'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto :-( Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:25 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 396
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
With nice fresh bearings such as you describe, 10w30—even synthetic—is on the too-thick side of things for fast oil pressure on cold start. Try a switch to 0W30 (I use Castrol Syntec) and see how that does. I found a noticeable improvement in oil pressure speed on startup even switching from 5w30 synthetic to 0w30 synthetic. Don't be afraid of oils that would have been considered unreasonably thin in the past![/quote]

We switched my daughter's Dart to 0W30 as recommended using Mobil 1 to maintain brand. Temps were low 30's. There was no discernable knock so Dan gets a thumbs up for this recommendation!

At what temp do we switch back to 5W or 10W?

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:32 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 396
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
Quote:
With nice fresh bearings such as you describe, 10w30—even synthetic—is on the too-thick side of things for fast oil pressure on cold start. Try a switch to 0W30 (I use Castrol Syntec) and see how that does. I found a noticeable improvement in oil pressure speed on startup even switching from 5w30 synthetic to 0w30 synthetic. Don't be afraid of oils that would have been considered unreasonably thin in the past!
We switched my daughter's Dart to 0W30 as recommended using Mobil 1 to maintain brand. Temps were low 30's. There was no discernable knock so Dan gets a thumbs up for this recommendation!

At what temp do we switch back to 5W or 10W?]

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:49 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

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Quote:
We switched my daughter's Dart to 0W30 (...) There was no discernable knock so Dan gets a thumbs up for this recommendation!
Hoorah for cheap and easy fixes!
Quote:
At what temp do we switch back to 5W or 10W?
Oh, don't worry too much about it. The right-hand half of the viscosity (the "30" part) means you're covered. This is not 1970 or 1980 when you had to pick between thin oil that was always thin or thick oil that was always thick; today's engine oil is really quite amazing stuff. With nice fresh bearings in your engine, the oil pump evidently has no trouble maintaining good film strength with the 0W30. Me, I will likely carry on running 0W30 year round in my low-miles '73. If you want to go to a 5W30 or 10W30 for whatever reason, do it in late Springtime.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:11 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:35 am
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Quote:
How cold are we talking about when you say "cold starts"?
Cold ambients generally run high 20's to low 30's F in the winter.
The oil pressure switches are screwed into the oil pumps for both Darts. Rod clearances ran .001 for both Darts.

The beauty of two identical Darts: theory of relativity applies & helps reduce the human judgement factor. When there is a distinct performance difference then it points to something that isn't identical. I'm comparing both cars at the same ambient with the same oil & filter so it might be some of the things raised outside that loop. Changing the oil for both Darts to a lower viscosity sounds like a good idea for the winter.
I am glad the switch to lower viscosity oil worked however you now know the engines are not identical.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:29 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:57 am
Posts: 1566
Location: Oslo, Norway
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When trying to force a high viscosity cold oil through the oil filter during startup, it may invoke the by-pass-valve (BPV). On some brands with valves made of inferior material, the BPV may stay open even when the pressure sinks as the oil gets hot! The WIX/Napa filters have an excellent silicone rubber valve so they should be in the clear, but with unknown brands or if in doubt, change the filter.
Olaf

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:47 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:09 am
Posts: 396
Location: Tolland, Ct. 06084
Car Model: 65 Dart, 225, 4 spd od, hyd clutch, BBD, 2 1/4 exh
Identifying what is different will start with the easy...how the new oil pumps compare. It's likely that pressure & volume are performance indicators.

I'm going to tee in oil pressure gauges at the oil pressure switch locations when the weather breaks. Measuring volume may take some research on how that's done.

My daughter has been monitoring the oil pressure light for how quickly it goes out and it's continues to be much quicker after the oil change to 0W x 30 with no brief knock sounds.

It's possible that when we changed the oil & filter that we actually replaced a defective NAPA 1806 filter without picking that up as the culprit.
We used NAPA 1806 again however as that seems to be getting SL-6 Forum thumbs up.

_________________
1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:50 pm
Posts: 2353
Location: Pertneer Nashville TN
Car Model:
When we did an oil change on a friends '80 van I told him to get a Pure PL30001 for extra capacity. It works on all my stuff.

The stand pipe was so long that the filter hir on the head and would cross thread.

:shock:

_________________
'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto :-( Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick


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