Hi fellas. Been lurking here for a while, but haven't posted anything recently. But the weather is getting warm and that means it's time for projects! I want to pose a question for you guys, particularly for guys like Dan and Doc and RugTrucker who have a LOT of experience.

THE MISSION: This is all about fuel economy. I drive a specialized freight route for a living. Approx 1000miles a week or 50k a year. 98% steady state interstate driving. I've burned through 4 vehicles in the last 7 years of doing this. What I use right now I'm pretty happy with. It's a 1990 former u-haul Toyota 1 ton dually box truck. The tiny 10 foot jobbie that's basically a 4-runner with a box on the back. The truck is great, but the drivetrain is a poorly engineered piece of crap. It's known to warp heads and crack valves every 100k, and I've already rebuilt it once. It's also a gas pig. I track my mileage very closely, and this thing gets 16mpg. The EPA rated the truck, without the box and without the 1 ton or dually, at 21/18, which is pretty poor for a dinky vehicle that weighs a little over 3000#.

The engine is a 3 liter V6, the trans is an automatic with a .71 overdrive. The rear gear is a 4.56 and she's turning 2400rpm at 65mph. The published figures are 150hp@5000 and 185ft/lb@3750.

By accident, I'm about to come upon a complete 83 slant out of a pickup truck, backed with the OD833 which has a .71 gear. You can see where I'm going with this. It will be tight, but I'm pretty sure it will fit in the Toyota.

Keeping in mind that each mpg is worth $500 per year (if gas is at $2.80, which it won't be) then put on your thinking caps and riddle me the following questions:

1. Do you think the slant in place of the Toyota engine would hit 16mpg? If it will I'd do the swap in a heartbeat because it will save me big bucks in future repair bills. I expect the slant to go 200-250k between overhauls, and I have an extra slant as a spare and can swap it in an afternoon.

2. Do you see any mileage negatives with the hydraulic lifter slant, or any other reason I shouldn't use it.

3. The slant is 3.7 liter, which should get worse mileage than a 3.0. But if you look at the published torque spec (170@2000?) it should shine in this application.

4. Is there anything magical in the Feather Duster engine that aids mileage? Cam? Carb?

Anybody got any other advice about this project. Even if it gets worse mileage, picture in your mind how badass a Toyota u-haul with a slant six and a 4 speed would be. Dually burnouts aren't in the mission statement, but they would be fun!

Kip

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

The 3.0 toyota engine is known for losing head gaskets....

The automatic isn't helping you.

You'd be better off with the 22RE.....(and manual)


I don't think the engine bay is big enough for the slant, although a slant with a manual transmission would probably be better than the 3.0 with an automatic.

What kind of smog laws do you have to deal with?


Might be stuck with having to get a same year or newer engine, in which case, I think you'd be better off with the toyota 2.7 4 banger (similiar ratings as the existing 3.0) with a 5 speed tranny........


For more power there's the later 3.4 toyota V6.


Both the 2.7 and 3.4 are fairly common swaps for the 3.0 and 22RE....

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

If you ditch the Toyota drive-train you'd lose the ability to uncontrollably accelerate to high speeds at random intervals.

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Ed,
Your thinking is 100% spot on. But I don't think the 22re is the answer because its' only got 132ft/lb (don't know the rpm) and would probably be working really really to keep the truck moving. EPA rated a short cab 2wd 22re truck at 24mpg in 1990, which is still bad.

The 3.4 is a great choice, but it's newer and even more computer controlled and complicated. It's probably a reflection on my own skills, but I think carburated is the way to go here. Every time the Toyota has given me problems it's always something related to the fuel injection or computer or sensors. With the slant, I can carry a spare starter, carb, dizzy (electronic), and ballast resistor and 4 wrenchs and be pretty confident that I can get where I'm going.

The single best choice is a 96 and up Chevy 3.8 V6 with a 5 speed from a camaro. There's a company that even makes a kit to swap this in. There's a guy on the Toyota boards that swapped this into his 4wd with giant tires and gets 38mpg. But again, there's a fair amount of computer work involved, and it requires fabricated headers which are going to be expensive.

I've taken measurements, and you are right - the slant WON'T fit, but I think I can make it fit. The main problem is the radiator, but I have some ideas.

There are emission laws in Ohio, but I lied to the DMV and told them it weighs 10001# so it's emissions exempt. Kooky laws in Ohio. It has truck plates, but Motor Carrier can't pull me over and I don't have to weigh it. Because of how I titled it, I can pull the cats off if I want to. And I don't have to carry a log book and I don't have to sleep every 16 hours.

The last thing that steers me toward the slant is money. I have none. Like...NONE. A better funded guy would just keep rebuilding the Toyota engine or get a GMC box van. But a new truck is out of the question - squeezing more durability and mileage out of this truck is the order of the day.

Excellent advice though. I've also though about doing this slant swap, and then building a smaller slant on the side. 170 might be too small, but 198 might be just right at 3.2 liter.
Kip

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

I have an 86 Toyota 1ton pickup. I bought it new, and it now has 338,000 miles, with just a "Front engine kit" on the 22RE engine. Granted it is now a little tired, but it has been the best vehicle investment , I ever made. I tow my race car trailer and get about 18 MPG at a gross weight of just under 10,000 lbs. Has 4.30 rear and a 5 sp OD.
If you have no money, to spend, I really don't think a slant conversion is the way to go.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

My son had a 4runner with that drivetrain, and aside from being a gas hog, it was downright unreliable and nigh on impossible to work on without cussing. He was never happy with it.

As for the slant swap, bust out the tape measure. I don't think this would be worth it. However, there are kits to install a Buick V6 into Toyota trucks, and one wouldn't be working too hard to get reasonable power out of it.

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If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

I hate to admit this but...4.3 Chev v6 with 4spd auto Even if you have to do abit of computer work with the EFI it's a combo that is hard to beat.The older TBI had more go to it then the later EFI's IMHO and I've had both.5spd would be do able but maybe less dinkin around with the auto.Sorry for the non-slant vote.

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83 B-150 slant 6,4 speed. 79 B-300 360 pathfinder 4x4. 74 W-300 318 4x4 git-r-done 80 B-100 sl6,4speed

Nothing that will assist you form this program...it's a pretty stock engine, but uses a "lot" of timing, and uses a "lot" of EGR to supress ping... Great on mileage, not so great in trying to get a 3400 lb car to move out of it's own way....

-D.Idiot

I want to hear from the guys with D series trucks - what kind of mileage are you guys getting highway?

Yes 6shot, the 4.3 Chev is a great choice and super durable, and Downey makes a kit to toss it into the truck. But again, I have the slant and OD so I wouldn't have to buy anything. In fact, the only thing I'd actually have to spend money for on this swap would be $100 for the clutch pedal assembly (master and slave) for the Toyota, and maybe $150 for a driveshaft. There'd be some other stuff but I figure I could do the whole thing for less than $500.

Coconut- I agree. It was Toyotas first V6 and they only made it for a few years and then replaced it with something better. Aside from many minor flaws, it has a fatal flaw which is the pass side exhaust bank dumps right into the drivers side bank, basically blowing hot exhaust at the #6 cylinder. It blows head gaskets there, and cracks valves there. I got the truck in 2008, and 5k later it cracked that valve. To Toyota's credit, there was a recall on the head gasket for that truck, so the dealer did that under warranty (18 year old truck!) but the head was warped and I had to buy a head, water pump, belt, knock sensor so it still ended up costing me $1000.

I'm getting the vibe from you guys that you don't think it will hit the magic 16mpg number.

Kip

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1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

Isn't there a Buick 3.8 turbo V6? That might get power and milage. And didn't Pontiac have a supercharged V6 a few years ago....

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50 chrysler,54 Plymouth, 64 Valiant conv 4 speed, 66 Valiant V8 wagon, 70 Challenger R/T 440+6 conv 4 speed,80 Colt, 98 Neon ACR,84 Honda V45 Magna
Taking care of 57 300C conv,48 T&C conv. Missing my 67 GTX and 36 Ply coupe

Some swap the Supra 7MGE into 22RE equipped trucks.
Those sixes also are known for head gasket problems, but
a gasket set fixes that. There is a early '90s 4WD
Forerunner in the local salvage yard, It is clean without
a motor. The Supra six is a little small for 1 ton, but
so would be the V6 stocker. The Supra six with the ARP
studs is that I'd use as I prefer inline sixes because of
the useable torque.

This is a fairly common swap . A JDM motor does not
cost a lot.

http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/artic ... ?id=186544

I really dont see why a slant wont fit. Guys are swapping the inline 6 outta supra's and cressida's into toyota trucks.

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To many damn dodges and now a slant

Well I have an 86 150 and it seemed to get upper teens (maybe 18?) when I did get on the highway, but max speed for it is usually 60 because it has an automatic and it is annoying to listen to for a long time.
My truck is kind of strange . . .

I would look around for an older 3.8L GM motor out of a RWD car and just take the whole setup, they are compact, pretty powerful, and they are about as bullet proof as the /6 I think. Plus 4speed is right and they did make supercharged 3.8s, they made them all the way up until they stopped making them.

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Get out your aluminum magnets!

Going to any engine that's newer or more complex or harder to get parts for makes sense on many levels, but not for me. This swap is about mileage and simplicity and beef, which is what the slant six is all about. And maybe it's me being conservative - any engine with a computer scares me.

4speed - the Buick you refer to is the 231 V6 that came in the grand national, and evolved into the 3.8L I mentioned earlier. It came in Camaros, and it came with a blower in 96-up Rivieras and Pontiax GXPs, spec'ing at 280ft/lbs and getting 27 highway in the heavy Riv. It's ideal, but I'd have to buy it, buy a 5 speed out of a Camaro, buy the computer with it, buy the custom exhaust, etc. Downey sells a kit for a few hundred to put it into the Toyota. And I'd want to rebuild it before I put it in. But your thinking is correct - it's probably the best choice.

Matt - Downey also sells a kit to put a small block chevy into this truck, but it requires a lift kit and some firewall bashing. The truck has adjustable torsion bars like a mopar, and it looks to me like the slant oil pan is in the right place to clear. The front pulley on the slant would crash into the radiator, but I think I can switch to an electric fan and move the radiator to the forward side of the bulkhead. If that doesn't work then I have a crazy plan to put the radiator on the roof of the truck - why not?The power steering pump on the slant might not fit, but I could move it, adapt the toyota pump, or ditch it and go manual. The hardest part will be adapting the toyota clutch slave cylinder to operate the 833 clutch fork. I'm okay with the idea of not being able to get to the bellhousing bolts - you want to do the clutch you pull the engine and trans together and do it on the bench.

I think all that stuff is doable. What I don't have is knowledge of the fuel consumption with the slant. Back in the 80s, all my Valiants and Dusters generally got 22-24mpg with automatics. So I'm thinking they should/could hit 16 in a 3400lb dry/6000lb loaded truck just loafing along at 60mph. Synthetic oil, manual steering, super six intake, no AC, manual trans, better exhaust, milling the head are all things that could be done to help.

Basically, I need someone with a lot of experience to tell me why it won't work and discourage me!

Kip

_________________
1965 Valiant wagon Turbo slant (work in progress)
2000 Chevy 155" cargo van - The Abductor
1970 Newport convertible
1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon
1966 CruiseAire motor home
1990 Toyota 1 ton box truck TURBO slant (scraped)

I just don't see the slant fitting...........

I have an 86 toyota with the 22RE.

The engine compartment on the 90 is basically the same size.


There's no room for a fan in front of the radiator.

The front of the 22RE is only about 4 inches away from the radiator, so you'll need to relocate it somewhere with the longer slant. (half wide, double thickness on drivers side???)



Can you gain room by lowering the bellhousing and sliding it back a bit?

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes