Hi All,

I have a 1960 8 1/4" rear end in my car. This isn't the same as the 8 1/4" that everyone else knows that came out in the mid-late 60s, it's a much earlier unit that looks a lot like the 8 3/4" (same housing??).

I was wondering if anybody knows where I can get bearings/seals/parts AND gear sets for this rear? Alternatively, if there are any parts that will interchange with more common units (like the 8 3/4).

Rock auto have the bearings but they tend to send everything out in individual packages to the UK which costs a fortune. Andy B also has the bearings but not the gear sets.

It has a whine that I think is getting worse and I reckon at some point in the future I'd like to rebuild it.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated,
All the best,
60 Ply

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1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

Ratio is 3.31 by the way.

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

Are you sure it is not the 8 3/8 rear. If so I know the 8 3/4 center sections are interchangeable. That would take care of the gears. Do you have a picture?
Frank

_________________
Scrapple: Because a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
73 Duster - Race Car
66 Dart Wagon - DD
178" FED
82 D150
All Slant powered

Hi Frank,

Yup, pretty sure. This also matches what the FSM says for a slant equipped 1960 fulsize. The older 8-1/4 uses essentially the same housing as the 8-3/4, but with an extra bolt hole in the housing/carrier. I think they killed this 8-1/4 off in 1962/3/4ish. For 1960, the only 6's with the 8-3/4 were the fleet specials and those ordered with optional heavy duty/towing package (why you'd order an optional extra axle upgrade instead of getting a V-8 in 1960 . . .)

According to one forum poster on another site (I forget where), the older 8-1/4 ring and pinion can be changed back to 1937, but I'm not entirely sure if this is correct. Some suppliers for bearings and seals (Andy B for example) etc say that their parts fit "1937-1950/51/52/57", implying there is somthing different about 57 upward, including my 1960. Maybe these parts are different but the gears are interchangeable.

For anyone reading this, it's important to note that this is pretty circumstantial evidence, and all as a result of me trying to fathom it for myself so take it with a pinch of salt!

I thought that I could just weld up and re tap the new holes so that the housing would accept a 8-3/4 carrier, but Dr. Diff said that the number of splines in the axles would also be diffierent.

I think I am going down the route of finding an 8-3/4 that I can rebuild over a period (can't afford all the bits at once!), and living with the whine and keeping the current axle well oiled. So another post about an 8-3/4 I have found in the UK is about to open . . .

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

I have a 3.31 - 8 1/4 center section (741 case) and it swaps right into any of my 65 and newer 8 3/4 housings... same axle spline count & no mis-matched case bolt hole.

I would agree that you are much better-off if you can get the later 8 3/4 assembly into the vehicle, it will be easier to work-on, find parts for and do gear swaps on those.

Here are some photos of my 3.31 - 8 1/4 next to a 3.23 - 8 3/4 "pumpkin". The 8 1/4 center section is about 15 lbs lighter. (un-sprung weight)
DD

Hi Doc,

That's a really useful piece of info. There's a few boards and places all wondering "will it fit" with some of the 8-1/4 and 8-3/4 stuff.

If the 8-1/4 pumpkin fits the 8-3/4 housing with no problems, it implies the 8-3/4 pumpkin will fit my 8-1/4. This would be the ideal situation, since I don't have to mess about with shortening axles/changing brakes over etc (which is really good for me - being able to buy brake 'kits' for my car allows a bit of consistency, rather than front brakes from a 1960 Ply, back brakes for a '71 d-150 etc) but still get the benefits of easy to find parts, ratios etc.

I noticed you said the 8-1/4 pumpkin has no bolt mismatch? Is it a 10 bolt pumpkin?

Also, did you get my pm about trans dipsticks?

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

Hi Doug,

Sorry to dig up an older post, just one more question. Does the old 8.25 have the same distance between axle centreline and u-joint centreline as the 65 up 8.75 housing? I'm wondering if I can keep my propshaft the same length. If so, that will save me a fair bit.

The most cost effective solution at the moment for me seems to be to fit the 8.75 pumpkin into my current 8.25 housing (if the 8.25 goes into the 8.75 this should be possible I guess . . ?). This would save me a fortune in shipping an entire axle and I wouldn't have any width or braking issues.

For future reference, do you think it would be possible (at a later date) to fit modern bolting flange type axle shafts and associated bearings into the older 8.25 housing? I could then use all the later 8 3/4 stuff (including bolt on drums) but keep the original brake backplate and save me a fortune trying to ship a housing.

If an 8 3/4 comes up cheap in the UK this is ofcourse the way to go.

All the best,
60 Ply

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

The 8 3/4 and 8 1/4 third members interchange directly. The U-joint is in the same place.

You cannot change to the later axle bearings and seals with the old style housing ends. The early bearing housing isn't deep enough. You could put on later housing ends, but that's a cut and weld job and you'd need custom axles.

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Joshua

That's a shame - it'd be nice to turn the axle into a late easy-to-work-with 8-3/4 without the shipping costs associated with a new housing.

Still, if the third member is a direct bolt in that saves a lot, and I believe all the the bearings and seals can be had from Andy Bernbaum. So that would mean everything can be replaced bar the axle shafts.

Do you know if the 8-1/4 housing could be machined out to accept the bearings? I understand that would be getting to be far too complex to warrant considering - I'm just interested in the academic possiblity.

All the best,
60 Ply

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

My understanding is that the bearing housing isn't deep enough to accept the later bearing with it's retaining collar. If you examine the housing you'll see that it's made up of several sections welded together. The axle bearing housings (housing ends), bearings and seals all changed when the flanged axles were introduced.

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Joshua

Thanks Joshua, I've learned a lot today.

Now I know what the Housing End is called, I see that Moser actually make them. I guess these could be a direct replacement for the ones my 8-1/4 currently have, turning it effectively into an 8-3/4 (with suitable axle shafts). Again, this is more of an academic study, but it's interesting what I could do to the rear end in the future. Shame we don't have junk yards full of American iron over here in the UK, pulling a genuine 8-3/4 would be a lot easier.

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

The only thing that makes your axle an 8 1/4 is the 3rd member. Everything else should be the same as a 1960 8 3/4. No one is going to reproduce early housing ends as no one wants to use the old style tapered axles. If I were in your shoes I'd install a good used 3.23 geared 8 3/4 third member, attend to whatever the brakes and bearings need and get back to driving.

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Joshua

That's the intention to be honest. I'm only interested in bearing ends for future use, more for interest than intention. There's a few 8-3/4 centre sections on the Bay at the moment, including the correct ratio. Not many people are too keen on shipping to the UK though. I think shipping works out at about $180, which isn't anywhere near as much as I thought.

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

The issue to watch-out for is the center thrust block in the replacement unit.
The taper-axle assembly used a shorter thrust block, in-betwen the two axle shafts. (changed around 1965?)
DD

Hi Doc,

Does this mean the 65+ 8-3/4 pumpkin won't transfer into the old style 8-1/4 housing? Unless the thrust block is also changed (from the 8-1/4 . . ?)

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker