Recheck the accelerator pump for too much slop. It should kick in and provide a healthy squirt in when you press down that much.

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Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Is the distributor's vacuum avance system functioning correctly?
DD

excellerator pump is working fine, and the distributor vacuum pod is working too.

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Brian Long

ok got all the parts on the car...changed the dizzy spring to the green ones, installed the secondary metering block on the carb..car has more bottom end than before, with the light springs removed and replaced with the green ones. However now I'm getting a valve ping at cruzing with the timing set about 10* BTDC with high octane, and the mark still hops around from 10 to say 5*, With the light shooting the mark if I rev the engine and hold it at 2500rmps give or take,, the timing mark is still bouncing back and forth. However the hesitation is gone now, and now I have a new problem,,can't win for losing,,looks like I can't have my cake and eat it too. LOL..I had it set at 10* before the part swap and had no pings or run ons. Another thing I found, when I removed the distributor and took it apart, the bottom of the distributor housing had motor oil in it,,whats happening here..the shaft has no play in the housing,,the dizzy was bought from 66aCUDA Frank..was a rebuilt one. Anymore ideas will help me if you have any. Thanks guys in advance for more input.

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Brian Long

First off at least you have green grass & palm trees to contend with. My world is now all white, due to an early Nor’easter plowing into New England last night. The power is back on… So can you post more green warm photos please?


[quote]with the light springs removed and replaced with the green ones. However now I'm getting a valve ping at cruzing with the timing set about 10* BTDC with high octane,[/quote]

You need to install one heavy black spring with a long loop that will slow down the last three degrees of advancement and keep governor weights from bottoming out with a bounce. Than using a [url=http://dutra.org/doug/draft-webpages/distributor/pg4.jpg]3/32â€￾ Allen wrench[/url] inserted into the vacuum advance can’s vacuum hose hole, turn it counter clock ways a few turns to back off cruse or high vacuum condition timing advance, than test drive. You may have to repeat this a few times to stop light throttle pinging. Shoot for around 50 degrees or so of total timing.


[quote]the bottom of the distributor housing had motor oil in it[/quote]
Do you mean the space where the governor weights reside? Is your PCV Valve working properly to reduce crankcase air pressure, which if high, can push oil into strange places?

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

I would go about 5 turns or more to keep the vacuum advance from kicking in too soon.

There is a 4 page manual Doc posted under the Engine FAQ, Recuve section that tells you how to do this adjustment in depth. Bill linked the key page.

Can you get this engine to idle under 900 rpm with the Erson 280/270 cam?
What is your compression ratio?

I just finished picking all the peppers and tomatoes, I hate to think about snow...

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Yeah well thats and old picture taken about a 6 months ago, however we still have green grass and warm weather here in New Orleans...Ok you say to put one black spring with the long loop,,the kit i have doesn't have that spring in it,,however the old spring I took out from the get go had one, not sure of the color, we might call it rust color lol, maybe put it back? You want me to keep the green on the other side? The kit has a black without the long loop.

As far as the oil in the housing where the weights are..I have 2 breather vents on the valve cover, one is for vent only and the other is the pcv valve. Motor is a recent rebuild with only 4000 miles on it.

Yeah Ted I can idle it to 500rmps in park,,jack it up to 900 in park and throw it in drive, and it goes to about 500rpms,,thats where I sit now with it. Compression is calculated somewhere 9.5-9.7 took 100 off the head and left the block stock. put the thin steal shim head gasket on it from Frank to give it a little more.

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Brian Long

Yes, put the long lopped secondary spring back. That will keep it from bouncing off the end of the slots. Green on the primary is a good place to start. Since you have more cam and high idle you might try a step stiffer too. Be sure to rotate the spring post on the primary spring all the way out for max stretch. That will help the green spring.

Are you using the spreed sheet and mapping your results?

When you have time read the recurve info from last year on wjajr's car. It is very in depth.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

ok this is new to me, and never attempted this before,,you talk primary and secondary, what is the primary and what is the secondary, are the weights different? Do I have to put the springs on a certain weight? I don't want to sound dum,,but I never fooled with a distributor before. Never knew you could rotate the spring post either, you wanna shorten or lengthen the distance for the spring? Wow this is getting complicated.LOL.

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Brian Long

The primary is simply the first spring that come into action; if you run one ordinary spring and one with a long loop that delays it's spring action, the ordinary spring is the primary.

You still have your timing mark jumping around, did you had a chance to check on the timing chain yet? (if not, wait until you have the distributor in place again)

Olaf.

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Aspenized

Brian,

Primary is the light weight spring, the long one you had on originally would be the secondary. It dose not mater which spring goes where as the light spring controls the rpm governor weights start to move outward. And heavy spring controls final three degrees of advance somewhere past 2500 rpm to about 2800 rpm.

What you are trying to do is keep the distributor’s mechanical advance from activating too soon off of your idle rpm. With a stock distributor curve and a hot cam needing a high idle of say 1000 or a little less, the governor would be advancing the timing making for an unsteady idle. This is what is making your timing float up & down when the timing light is on. That light stock spring can’t control weight’s movement much past 800 rpm.

So your goal is to find a spring, and spring post position (the post can be turned with needle nosed pliers 180* lengthening or shortening the stretch of primary spring) that allows for steady timing at “in parkâ€￾ idle, plus a few hundred more rpm so the engine will settle down when car is not moving, and than transition smoothly from a stop up to speed.

This may be a bit easer than what I went through as your cam is a bit tamer, you know its recommended idle speed & lash settings, and your torque converter a bit looser than mine.

Like Ted suggested, read my recurve saga, and graph your progress with each change of spring & post position, at 100 to 200 rpm increments.

You will need to make two sets of readings each time: one with vacuum advance vacuum line disconnected; and one with vacuum advance connected to vacuum source. Don’t forget to list static timing, or rather base timing.

Total timing = base + mechanical + vacuum advance.

I began at idle in gear with blocked rear wheels, and set parking brake, than “in parkâ€￾, and using the idle adjustment screw to notch up rpm incrementally until no more timing advance. Which will most likely be 3000 rpm.

You can make extra timing marks at 10 or 5 degree increments on the pulley by turning engine over by hand just enough using existing timing mark and +10*/ 0* /-10* markings to estimate where 55 degrees would be with white out, or white paint, or a filed notch. I marked my pulley with a 10* notches, filling them with white out to be more visible.

Bill

_________________
67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

ok guys here we go again,,I changed one of the springs on the distributor to the long loop, left the green on the other side and turned the spring post to give it max stretch. I turned the set screw in the vacuum advance pod counter clockwise 3 full turns, retimed it to 10* BTDC I guess,,the friking mark is still hopping back and forth at idle and at high rpms. I turned the crank by hand and it doesn't have any slack in the chain. I put a double roller timing set in 4000 miles ago. It cranks up nicer, faster and idles smoother, and with a lower rpm now. Took it for a ride, and it accellerates better and is more responsive on the bottom end. Got out on the highway and cruzin at 70 mph which is about 3100 rpms, and the valves are quiet, until I accellarate, pinging under a load, got up to 80mph held it there and the valves are pinging at 80 cruzin. Not as bad as before the redo, but its pinging. Pinged all the way up to 100mph +. Shuts down nice without kickback. Think this is the best we can do or what? Seems like we zeroing in on it..

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Brian Long

Try 6 degrees initial.
What number vacuum advance are your running? 9R, 15R ??????

At 70, stomp on it, I bet the pinging goes away then comes back when yu let up, if so....probably too much vacuum advance and mechanical combined.

Did you plot the mechanical yet? You could be doing this...trial and error....for ever!
I would recommend plotting what you have before you make more changes. It only takes a few minutes. Then we can advise much better. At least plot at 500 rpm intervals with and with out vacuum advance.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

I don't see a number on the vacuum can..I looked yesterday when I had it off and didn't see a number on it. If I'm not mistaken I remember Frank telling me it was a 9R. The timing is bottomed out on the distributor..I will have to move the bracket on the distributor, since I modified it to get more advance. I will try what you said about stomp it at 70. I'll try backing the timing down more too..won't i lose it on the top, with lower timing? I will try a plot too. When you plot the car has to be in drive?

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Brian Long

No! neutral.....you can't rev it up to 3000 rpm in drive!!!
The number is stamped on the vacuum advance arm, not on the can.
When you stomp on it at 70 the vacuum goes to zero and so it takes the vacuum advance out of the equation.....do you have a vacuum gauge to drive by?

Lowering the initial by 4 degrees will not hurt top end. It will improve it.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG