My '67 dart slant six was sick when i bought it. The timing chain had jumped and it was running poorly. I had the chain replaced, points, cap,rotor, plugs, wires, etc. Ran great! Then the points closed down, it died on me. Back to the garage. Ran great, then after a couple days it died again...points. This cycle went on a couple times, so then I got frustrated and put a new distributor in it. Ran great, then started the same thing...points closed down, wouldn't run. So, then I put an electronic ignition (remanufactured Mopar unit) system in it. Wow, the spark was great, seems to run better, but not quite right. Seems like there's a miss or something, running rough at times, rough idle. Choke and carb are fine, it acts like the timing is off or a plug wire is loose, but these seem OK. What's wrong with my Dart?

I've never seen this behavior in a slant six...

By "timing seems ok" does that mean you checked it with a timing light? Did you re-time your engine after swapping to E.I? What is it set at?

Time to step up and put the car into the 1970+ era... mopar stock EI can be 'finicky' if used with the old buzzbox voltage regulator, most RKI's upgrade the alternator and wire in the 1970+ Electronic Voltage Regulator.
Some people have used electronic versions of the buzz box, but most are chinese copies and don't hold up too long.

Good Luck,

-D.Idiot

Rob, what's an RKI?

I definitely avoid the cheapy electronic regulators. They're unreliable! A good regulator costs money; for the pre-'70 cars I like the Standard #VR-128 or Echlin VR-1001. It will cost several times what you'd spend for a Wells VR-706, but you really do get what you pay for. If you pay for a good regulator, you get voltage regulation just as good as the '70-up cars with their stock "2 field" alternator, but without having to buy a new alternator.

Also, "remanufactured" parts, including distributors, often cause problems. They tend to be of poor quality and wrong specification.

Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread. Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download. And how long since you checked your valve adjustment?

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

OK, I found that Mopar no longer makes the conversion to electronic ignition, so the only kit available uses a remanufactured distributor.

What about the alternator and voltage regulator? I didn't install this, but I'm sure my mechanic got the timing right. What is the most likely cause of the rough running? I also read in Slant Six Forum (can't find the thread) that when converting an older slant to electronic, there may be an issue with phase, that is, the alignment of the distributor and the base where the points are affixed may need to be adjusted independently to compensate for some difference in the older timing vs the newer 72+ systems. Any merit to that?

Thanks all for your quick responses. Are there any slant six experts in the SF bay area?

This is what I had my mechanic install:


IG-789RE 170-198-225 Slant Six Kit
Includes a "remanufactured" electronic distributor, new wiring harness, new electronic control & new ballast resistor.

See: http://www.jimsautoparts.com/mopar_perf ... nition.htm

Do I need a different alternator or voltage regulator to make this work?

I see several problem points here. The "remanufactured" distributor may very well be one; as previously noted, they often are not a good quality piece. Also, the "new control box" Jim's sends out could very easily also be a poor-quality piece. There's a great deal of junk on the market, even from formerly-reputable brands, and even the genuine Chrysler/Mopar control boxes are now of very poor quality.

You may also want to take a look here for suggested parts vendors, and if you ask (or search) around you will find Jim's has a less-than-shiny reputation.

Whether or not your distributor and/or ignition box is making problems, though, DusterIdiot is right; the stock 1967-type voltage regulator is not precise enough for any ignition box to work happily. Get a NAPA Echlin VR-1001 or a Standard VR-128, and run a ground loop -- a 14ga or 12ga wire connected from the alternator housing to the regulator base and from the regulator base to the battery negative terminal.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

"Reasonably Knowledgeable Individual"

I know from experience that the mopar EI module gets really salty if it doesn't get fed a constant volume of steady juice...(I know that it will start to misfire heavily if the voltage drops under 10...). A few enthusiasts here in the valley, and I know Adkins covered it in his book that the buzz box works OK for points but can be the source for the elusive mis-fire if all the other components have been ruled out...

If he can get the other items checked for function, then that should be the next item to scrutinize.

-D.Idiot

Thanks Guys, this is very helpful feedback.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the buzz box? It sounds suspiciously like this might be the issue, as the car runs, but seems to have a misfire 'cause it is very smooth at times, but generally feels like there's a miss.

My guess is that the new components are working OK, it's something in the old system that is incompatible (or insufficient).

Please school me on the parts. The orange box from Jim's is my electronic control unit, is that a voltage regulator? It came with a ballast resistor is that the buzz box or is that yet another component? Also, perhaps another clue, my mechanic also installed a new coil with the Jim's parts, and he said something like I used to have in an internal resistor. Is it the ballast resistor that replaced that old arrangement?

'67 Dart 270

P.S. for the future (I look forward to the day when this is fixed) I'd like to ask you guys about reputable vendors for restoration. I came from a big family, and we had/worked on fords, chevys and mopars, but I was always partial to the mopars. We've had at least at least 7 slant six cars over the years and they've all been very dependable, never seen an issue like this.

It's an informal term for the 1960-'69 original-type voltage regulator.
They might be. Do try the suggested voltage regulator replacement and ground loop addition.
No, that's the ignition control unit. And believe it or not, its orange color makes me suspect it even more. If you still get poor running once you've replaced the voltage regulator and added a ground loop, the ignition control unit would be my next suspect.
Yes. The internal-resistor coil was not correct for your car, no matter what ignition system it had.
Please see the link I gave above, in my earlier answer in this same thread. On this board, red text indicates a clickable link.

You will also want to get hold of the three books described in this thread as quickly as you can and start a-readin'!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks again, guys. I'll do some tinkerin and reading. I seem to recall in my youth that a grounding issue caused some rough running, so the ground loop and regulator replacement sound like good places to start. I will say that the increased spark has really pepped up the slant six (as I expected it would). Just have to fix this rough area. It's a '67 and it doesn't smoke at all (I fixed all the leaks, new rear seal, pan gasket etc.). Normal slant six valve noise, not loud or too quiet, so I think the valves are adjusted pretty well (good compression on each cylinder). Electrical is not my specialty. Luckily (in this economy) I work full-time, so it's hard for me to find time. I wish I could find a local Mopar guru, I'd gladly pay to have someone find the bug.

Thanks again, I'll let you know what I find out.

It's grey primer now, black interior (in surprisingly decent shape). I'm thinking lime green some day....

Hey Guys,

I need some clarification.

See: http://www.jimsautoparts.com/mopar_perf ... nition.htm

So, the kit I had installed from Jim's Link above) had the orange box, the distributor, wiring harness and a ballast resistor (white ceramic rectangular thing). Also, I see my mechanic installed a black box on the firewall that has two wires, one green one blue, that says "IGN" and "FLD" presumably these indicate ignition and field. Is this my voltage regulator? It looks like it's grounded to the firewall.

Before I buy a new voltage regulator, VR-1001 or VR 128, I need to know if this black box is what I'm replacing. Also, is it worth tinkering with the grounding (scratched surface of firewall where bolted down) to see if it's just a ground issue there? The placement and ground loop you suggest are not apparent in the current setup. The VR-1001 and VR-128 units look differnt, the former looks like it bolts to the alternator the latter to the firewall. It seems like the VR-128 would be easier to replace the current box and run a good ground as you mentioned, but if it's not too much work to do the VR-1001, and it's better, than I'd appreciate some guidance on either one.

Thanks so much for your help!

brian

P.S. The reason I got confused about which was the voltage regulator (besides the fact that I haven't worked on cars since I was a teenager) is that the auto parts stores sell replica's of the orange box unit as "voltage regulators" when clearly they are control modules.

Oh, I see, they are slightly different boxes. So, it looks like my mechanic put in a voltage regulator that is a replacement for the buzz box (at least it looks like it), so perhaps I should get a '75 or so voltage regulator and try that? I can't locate a VR-128.

Yes, it is.
Add the ground loop already described.
The NAPA Echlin VR-1001 and the Standard-BlueStreak VR-128 look the same as each other, but different to the regulator you presently have. There is no modification required; the VR-128 or VR-1001 will fit and connect directly in place of the black-box regulator you presently have.
Someone is showing you an inaccurate picture. The regulator you want looks like this:



If you cannot find one (i.e., your local NAPA won't get you an Echlin VR-1001 and your local Standard stockist won't get you a VR-128) I have several new ones on the shelf; send me a PM and we'll arrange for me to send you one).

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.