Hey All,
Have you ever heard the expression: "This is like a piece of mule meat! The more you chew on it the bigger it gets!"?

That's an old Texas saying meaning that the more one works on something, the bigger the job becomes.

Permit me to explain.

At about 2:00 p.m. the UPS Delivery Van pulls up, and the UPS Delivery Man hands me this little box. The box is opened, and there inside is this handsome, young 3/4" x 2-1/4" Fine Thread, Zinc Plated, Grade 5 Steel Bolt with a 1-1/8" Hex Head.

Eagerly it is taken out of it's plastic sack, taken to the Tool Box to get the Breaker Bar, and a 1-1/8" Socket with which to install it in the threaded Hole in the nose of Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant-Six Engine.

There is a 1-3/16" Socket, and a 1-5/16" Socket, but no 1-1/4" Socket!

Damn! I hate it when that happens.

But not to worry, there is this Big Mama Crescent Wrench (BMCW) that opens to 1-5/16" and though it is not the best way to do things, it will have to suffice.

So Lorrie is all ready with a large piece of Cardboard on the ground under her front end on which to lie to keep from getting muddy.

The Threaded Hole in the nose of Lorrie's Crankshaft has been cleaned with a solvent soaked rag wrapped around a 1/2" Bolt which was inserted and turned into the Threaded Hole in the nose of Lorrie's Crankshaft to clean the Threads.

The 3/4" Bolt is started into the Threaded Hole, and the first thing that is noted is that the Transmission Cooling Hoses connected to the Radiator are in the way of being able to put the BMCW on the Bolt. A Screw Driver is acquired, and the Hose Clamps are loosened, and the Hoses are removed and put up out of the way.

With gloved hands, the BMCW is put on the Head of the Bolt and the task of tightening it commences. It doesn't go in easily, but it IS going in. It gets tighter and tighter, and harder and harder to turn.

All of a sudden, Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant-Six Engine's Crankshaft turns!

HOORAY! The Engine is NOT seized up!

So the BMCW is repositioned and another few degrees of rotation are accomplished.

BUT, the Fan Blades are also beginning to turn because the Damper has a Fan Belt around it that goes to the Fan Pulley, then to the Alternator Pulley, and then back to the Damper.

And NOW begins the mule meat problems.

The Bolt isn't far enough into the Crankshaft for the Fan Blades to clear the Bolt Head. But not to worry, the Fan Blades can be pushed back, because the Fan Belt permits the Fan Pulley to slip. BUT, remember, the initial purpose of this whole exercise was to see if Lorrie's Engine was frozen, and as was noted previously, it is NOT.

So rather than continue with this procedure, it was decided to remove the 3/4" Bolt.

Alas, the Bolt won't come out!

Instead, the Engine begins to turn in the opposite direction and there's no way to stop it from so doing.

At this point, it is decided to just stop, and retreat, leaving the situation the way it is, and seek some quiet time to ponder what to do in order to accomplish this task properly.

And here is what that pondering has produced:

Need to acquire a 1-1/4" Socket.
Need to remove Lorrie's Front Bumper.
Need to remove Lorrie's Grille.
Need to remove Lorrie's Radiator.
This will give unrestricted access the the front of the Engine.
The Bolt can then be removed using the Impact Wrench.
This will also make it easier to turn the Engine over to distribute the oil that was put into the Combustion Chambers and Cylinder Bores.

So this is where the situation sits at the moment.

If anyone has an easier way to remove the Bolt, it would most certainly be appreciated.

If not, then tomorrow morning, before it gets up to 80 degrees as it is right now, the above delineated work will commence.

But at least, we know that Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant-Six is not dead.

I just have to ask the question again as has been asked many times before: "Why can't anything be easy?"

Hope you all are well.

JC
__________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - http://msamericanpi.bravehost.com/dodge.htm

Before you pull all the stuff off, put BMCW on bolt then hit said wrench with a husky hammer. This may loosten the stuck bolt. :shrug:

Richard

_________________
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Hey Richard,
Tried that. Alas.

So in a orgy of super-human effort, Lorrie Van Haul's Front Bumper and Grille were removed this evening.

Also, the Radiator has been taken loose except for the Bottom Hose, which has had its Clamp uninstalled, but the Hose itself is stuck on the Radiator Outlet Tube.

Removal of the Radiator it is going to have to wait till tomorrow when there's more energy to deal with the situation.

Will keep you all updated as events occur.

JC

Hey Richard,
The stuck Bolt is out of the Threaded Hole in the Nose of Lorrie Van Haul's Crankshaft!

Got it unstuck by taking your suggestion and using the Big Mama Crescent Wrench (BMCW) and a medium sized Ball Peen Hammer. But had to remove the Front Bumper, Grille, and the Radiator to get to where THAT could be done.

Remember, it was previously reported that the threads in the Hole had been cleaned? NOT!

It actually took a little over an hour of messing with it to actually clean the threads completely.

Started with a Tooth Brush and Paint Thinner.

Then used some CRC Industrial Super Degreaser, and more Tooth Brush to clean out the residue.

Then threaded in a paint thinner soaked piece of rolled up Terry Cloth, and then more Tooth Brush.

Then started threading in rolled up Viva Paper Towel soaked in Paint thinner, and more Tooth Brush.

Then when it appeared to be totally clean, put some WD40 in the hole and started threading in the Bolt.

Got about one turn and the Bolt got hard to turn with the BMCW, so ran the Bolt back and forth as if one were using a Tap. Got about another turn of the Bolt and then removed it.

Cleaned out the hole with the Tooth Brush and dried it with a Viva Paper Towel.

Sprayed in some more WD40, and the Bolt went in another turn before getting hard to turn. Worked it back and forth like a TAP and got another turn out of it.

Again cleaned out the hole with the Tooth Brush and dried it with a Viva Paper Towel.

And this routine continued till NOW, the Bolt can be turned BY FINGERS a full 13.25 turns before it bottoms out in the hole.

At 16 threads per inch, that means that the Bolt goes in 13.25/16".

When fully threaded in, the Fan Blades clear the Hex Head by about an 1/8", and there is room for a 3/8" thick Washer between the bottom side of the Bolt's Hex Head, and the face of the Damper.

Am still going to get a 1-1/8" Socket (and a NEW Bottom Heater Hose) to do the turning of the Engine to get the lubricant in the Combustion Chambers and Cylinder Bores distributed. BUT, either the Fan or the Fan Belt is going to have to be removed to do this as the Fan Blades won't clear the 1-1/8" Socket and Breaker Bar being used to turn the Engine.

Anyway, the weather is supposed to clear up tonight, and the trip to Livingston will probably be made tomorrow.

Bit-by-bit. Little-by-little.

JC
__________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - http://msamericanpi.bravehost.com/dodge.htm

Hey All,
Just wanted to interject a "real world" comment here about the Bolt that goes into the nose of a 225 Slant Six Engine in order to maybe save someone else from having the same problems that I had.

At this website:

http://www.dutra.org/doug/draft-webpage ... -chart.htm

It lists the Vibration Dampener Bolt as being a 3/4", 16 TPI, tightened to 135 ft/lbs, with a 1-¼" Hex Head, and a 2.3" length with 1.5" min. thread length.

I was able to obtain a Bolt that is a 3/4", 16 TPI, 1-1/8" (not 1-1/4") Hex Head, 2-1/4" in length and has no shank (is threaded from the end to just under the Hex Head).

The problem that I had is that the Threaded Hole in the nose of the Lorrie Van Haul's Crankshaft is 13.25/16" of an inch deep. By that I mean that the bolt only goes into the Hole 13.25 turns before it bottoms out.

With the Damper keyed onto the nose of the Crankshaft, with its Fan Belt Groove properly aligned with the Alternator and Fan Pulley Grooves, and the Bolt threaded all the way into the Hole, the under-side of the 1-1/8" Hex Head is 5/16" (20/64") from the face of the Damper.

Also cogent is that the Hex Head is 1/2" thick. This means that when the Bolt is threaded all the way into the nose of the Crankshaft, that the top of the Bolt is 13/16" (52/64") from the face of the Damper.

Now CeeJ mentioned previously that a "thick washer" would be needed to hold the Damper in place. In this case "thick" means the ABSOLUTE minimum thickness necessary would have to be an 11/32" thick Washer, with a 3/4" hole and a 2" Diameter. This thickness (11/32") would allow a 1/32" tightening.

To find a Washer that thick has proved to be impossible, but one can use multiple Washers to make up that thickness. So not to worry, right?

Today, I went to the Hardware Store and found Washers that are 2" in diameter, 9/64" thick, with a 13/16" hole, and, I got five of them.

And this next part comes under the heading of: "Why can't anything be easy?".

A stack of two of them comes out to be 18/64" which is less than 11/32" (22/64") which means that the Bolt bottoms out in the Hole before the Washers tighten up against the Damper.

"So why not use three Washers?", you might ask.

A stack of three of them comes out to be 27/64", which is more than the 11/32" (22/64") minimum.

And one would think that the problem would be solved. Right?

Well, it doesn't. With three Washers in place, the Bolt tightened against the three Washer stack, the Fan just "ticks" the top of the Bolt!

But all is not lost for there IS a solution to this problem.

But before we get to THAT, let me make another "real world" observation: There is no way to torque that Bolt to 135 ft/lbs because the Engine turns at less than 135 ft/lbs.

So this being a "real world" problem, needs a "real world" solution.

So here is what I have done. Three Washers were put on the Bolt, and the Bolt threaded into the hole in the nose of the Crankshaft and tightened to where the Engine turns. Then the Breaker Bar was put on and a hammer was used to "impact" the Bolt as tight as it will go.

But the Fan still "ticks" the top of the Bolt.

The "real world" solution to THAT problem was to simply apply a little pressure to each blade of the Fan, bending it just slightly forward so it no longer "ticks" the Head of the Bolt.

BUT, there IS an easier solution to this problem, and that is to NOT get a 2-1/4" long bolt. If I would have gotten a 2" Bolt instead, then two Washers could have been used, and the Bolt would have gone further into the threaded Hole, and the Fan would not have had to have been bent.

This is a case of "Live and Learn".

Hope you all are well.

JC

Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Mail Van - 225 Slant Six - Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Steering - http://msamericanpi.bravehost.com/dodge.htm[/quote]

I would not count on the fan not returning to it's original shape, you might not want to put the bolt in. As a lot of the slants didn't have the bolt to begin with.

Richard

_________________
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Shorten the bolt on the threaded side with your grinder.

(get a nut and put on first so you can straighten the threads after grinding)

_________________
Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Never heard the mule analogy, but it pretty well describes your situation.

Moral of the story if you're going to work on slants. Next trip to a wrecking yard, pull a damper bolt and heavy washer off an old Mopar V8. With that and and a couple of oversize nuts to use for spacers, installing dampers on a slant is a five minute job.

Hey Richard,
Actually, the Fan was bent only about 1/16".

Is is pretty stiff, and for no faster than Lorrie will go, seeing as to how she has all the aerodynamic streamlining of a large cinder block, I don't think that the fan is going to turn fast enough to flex back to its original position.

If it does, then the Bolt can be removed without having to remove the Radiator.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC

Hey Mr. E,
Am afraid that this is going to have to go undone.
Finding a 3/4" 16 TPI Nut would be a MAJOR project out here in the boondocks of the world's largest Pineywood Forest, but thanks for the response. It is much appreciated.

Hope YOU are well.

JC

Hey Mr. 64C,
That has pretty much been the story with this project. BUT, the good news is that it all has been being done as a "pass time" labor of love, with no real schedule or dead-line. And as such, each thing that has branched off into being a "mule-meat" situation has only afforded more work to be done which is the whole reason for doing this.
Lorrie and I reside in a remote region of the world's largest Pineywood Forest in what is called: "Deep East Texas", and I'm afraid that there isn't a salvage yard within sixty miles of here.

Anyway, am going to be re-installing the Radiator today. The weather guessers are predicting rain for tomorrow and Tuesday, and so we are aiming for an attempt to start Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine on Wednesday, March 21, 2012.

Will let you all know how it goes.

Thanks for the response.

Hope YOU are well.

JC

I'm also in East Texas, but not deep, and I know what you are saying about salvage yards. Folks on car forums can't believe it when I tell them I have to drive two hours to the DFW area to find parts, and that there aren't that many there.

I'd be looking for foreign matter or a broken off bolt in the threaded hole. I suppose an industrial from a vehicle like that could have a different machined crank snout bore, but I really doubt it.

I'm thinking gravel.

CJ

_________________
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Hey Mr. 64C,
Lorrie and I live 33 miles East of Huntsville where Hwy 190 crosses the Mighty Trinity River.
There used to be a number of salvage yards in the area when I got here in 1990, but they are all gone now. Don't know why they shut down, but just one day they were gone. Would have to drive two hours into the Houston area to find parts, and like DFW, there aren't that many left.

Lorrie has had her Radiator reinstalled and hooked up today.

It's supposed to rain here tonight, tomorrow, and Tuesday, and if everything goes according to plan, Lorrie is scheduled to have her mighty 225 Slant Six Engine fired up late Wednesday, March 21, 2012 for the first time since September 3, 1996.

She has been in refurbishment mode since September of 2009. EVERYTHING has been done to her. She is in the best shape she has been in since she came to live with me in 1975.

She is slated to become my daily driver, making it possible to start the refurbishment of Ms. American 3.14159, the ONLY 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, Four-Door, Hard-Top, Fast-Back, Police Interceptor that Google finds on the whole World Wide Web.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

Hope you are having a GREAT weekend.

JC

Hey CeeJ,
Have looked into the Threaded Hole. There is nothing in it. The bottom of the Hole is a shallow "cone" with the point at the center.

The Threads are clean enough to permit the turning in of the Bolt 13.25 turns with just one's thumb and first finger.


To what are you referring as an "industrial"?

Nonetheless, even with all the craziness involved with this Damper, the fact remains that "All's well that ends well." (W. Shakespeare).

Lorrie's Damper is secured. The Bolt and three Washers are in place, The Fan Blades don't hit the Hex Head of the Bolt, and Lorrie is ready for the run up to actually firing up her mighty 225 Slant Six Engine for the first time since September 3, 1996, which should happen Wednesday, March 21, 2012.

Will let you know how it all goes.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

JC