well so far I have managed to gather 22# injectors, which isn't nothing since this will be a turbo build, and from what i have read 55lb'ers will get me (with the proper build and tune) 400 crank hp with boost, but my question is i got a ford crown vic 70mm TB and plenum elbow, I have a cliffy 4bbl intake, stock dodge 5.9 fuel pump, enough iac's and TPS's and egr's, 2bar map sensors to fill a dumpster. and was wondering, she will be a DD first, boosted second, so my questions are,

#1 will #22lb injectors be adequate for a DD with a cliffy 4bbl mani, stock exhaust mani with free flowing 2 1/4" exhaust, and eventually a '97 T5, but stock 904 with transgo TF 2 shift kit for now, and a 8 1/4" 2.94 suregrip rear ??

#2 will 55lb injectors be sufficient for a 400RWHP goal ?? I know that translates to about 450-460 crank HP. But I imagine it is attainable with a well built slant. I really want to crack 500 RWHP, but will settle for 500 crank HP or can it be tuned to run 65-70LB injectors once boosted and still be some what streetable ??

#3 A good buddy of mine is getting his R33 Skyline dyno'ed wednesday, and since tuning shops around here are few and far between. I wanted to know what questions to ask, as far as if they can tune mega suirt etc etc, when I go to get my Volare tuned.

#4 I have read alot of the different build logs and its all very good reading technical as hell with some of the stuff, but still a good read, from everyone's personal experiences that are running MS and boost, would you recommend a shop set initial tune, or is it best to learn as you go ??


Thanks as always guys,

-Mike

_________________
I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

Yes on the 22 lb-hr on that build level. I ran 24 lb-hr for 8 yrs on a heavier build and never got close to max duty cycle.

55 lb-hr should be fine for 400 RWHP (500 crank HP), but you might want a bit more? You can always run higher fuel pressure and up the flow a bit. Assuming you will be using a boost-referenced regulator and fat fuel system. My goal is 300 RWHP on the '68 Dart, which my 38 lb-hr injectors should handle fine.

My advice is to build up on the boost and tuning before you try for big power. My car feels pretty fast even on 8-9 psi...

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Mike,

Time for a couple tough questions. Have you driven anything which puts 300hp to the wheels let alone 500hp? What about the chassis and brakes of your 500hp Volare? A Viper GTS is 450hp and I know from first hand experience the 13" brakes on it are not entirely track worthy as standard. They do work fine on the street though.

Then there is the question of keeping a 500hp 225 together...

_________________
Joshua

They're more than enough; you can even go smaller depending on what parts you have handy.
For 500 crank hp, I'd go with 65 lb/hr instead. Should be perfectly streetable on an MS2 - an MS1 may not quite have the best idle.
They may be a bit of a drive, but Atlantic Auto Works in Melborn has one of Florida's top MegaSquirt gurus.
You'll want to have the turbo motor on a dyno, but I'd think getting the DD setup dialed in yourself would be a good learning experience. Although a dyno tune after you have it running would be good for best mileage and drivability. Spark tables are a bit of a challenge to dial in without dyno time.

_________________
"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

@ Josh, yes I have driven both a 347 powered '95 mustang on spray putting down about 450 at the wheels, and my buddies skyline (RHD what a trip lol) at the time she was making 505 RWHP on the dyno on a mild tune/build.

I know the voalre/aspen hell any of the FMJ's are kinda regarded as bastard children of the MOPAR world, I was planning on running the AR engineering 11.75 kit with wilwood Dynalight calipers. but I have heard from verious sources, that there have been issues with these particular calipers. I really want to do a Brembo swap, but have to A. decide on caliper/ rotor selection. B. design a mount that will work and not kill me (literally) I just can't stomach dropping $2k+ on a front only brake kit. I have a local machine shop that has produced some amazing things, I will be in talks with them not only about the caliper mounts but modifying my aluminium 833OD bell to accept the '97 mustang T5.

my volare like most, has front frame rot, not bad, not great either, so i found a rust free '89 dippy and cut the entire front frame off the car. that will be going in when i have the time, and I will also be reinforcing the frame with custom thick box tube frame connectors, that i will end up "modifying the floor for depending on the size, I will have a bolt in X brace as well as either a 8 or 10 point cage, just to help solidify the over all car.

@ matt thats my thinking as well I just didn't know how streetable 65lb injectors would be. I was wondering when i should worry about changing the injectors out from the 22lb'ers, once the turbo goes on ?? once I take it past 5lbs of boost ?? or is it all about the numbers from the dyno to determine where to go from there ??

I don't mind making the drive down south for a reputable tuner, last thing i want is to have my motor kill itsself because some jackass can't tune her lol

-Mike

_________________
I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

I'd probably put the 65 lb/hr injectors in there, rescale the fuel and check that it runs, then put the turbo on.

_________________
"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

would the car be driveable ( ie guzzling gas) with 65lb injectors ?? It may be a month or too til it get turbo'ed and at this point, thanks to my lovely wifes student loan (sallie mae fascist F$^%*) that I have to pay $700 till may. it may be a bit before she see's boost. I just don't want to drop serious coin on injectors I may not need right now.


-Mike

_________________
I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

I don't expect any drivability issues.

_________________
"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

Having driven several machines in the 325-475 hp range as street drivers, I would suggest, excersise caution. My street slant is closer to 275 hp. It's a squirrly mess if the pavment is wet. I rode shotgun in a 550hp street rig. I was ready to crawl in the glove box. That was 552 hp on an actual crank dyno. Not the RW crap that we see infiltrating the ricer world. I have my doubts about the real numbers.

Be careful out there. Taking the ricer numbers and assigning them to real world is a bit flakey.

Anything that puts more than 300 HP to the ground is going to be an accident waiting to happen in a Driver.

CJ

_________________
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

You can control the duty cycle of any sized injector to work, but at low opening times such as idle, larger ones are not as stable because you must have it open for such a short period of time. There is an opening and closing time which effects the time fuel can flow at full volume. It is my understanding that if the open time gets too close to the time it takes for the injector to open and close, then the fuel delivery gets less reliable. IN really large applications, they will use two injectors: a small one for idle and low fuel demand, and then a second one that opens only as needed.

Sam

_________________

so in a dual injector setup, does the bigger on turn on and the smaller one turn off, or the the larger injectors simply spray while the smaller one sprays ??

-Mike

_________________
I am the Guardian, I hate helos, everything leaks.......

Might want to buy a blow proof bell from Summit.

We all hate Sallymae. She needs to leave my house too! I signed it, I'll pay it. Not like the whiny Obamabrats in college now.

_________________
'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

I'm not sure. I think the second one comes on in addition to the first. At least that is what I always imagined.

_________________

2nd bank comes on in addition, when 1st bank maxes out. Only needed for huge power per cylinder. Over 600 HP in our case, or when running alky and over about 500 HP. I think you can get 80 lb/hr injectors now?

Lou

_________________
Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

I know there was a rich guy in Naples that had a new GT40. He had the engine open and you could see double injectors.

_________________
'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick