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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Quote:
Curb Idle Screw was screwed all the way in to where the Spring was coil locked. That gave Lorrie an idle speed of about 460 RPM.
That's about 300 rpm too slow -- go ahead and get a slightly longer screw.
Quote:
Also, while Lorrie was idling at about 460 RPM, the Idle Mixture Screw was screwed in and out and had absolutely no effect on the speed of the idle, or the sound of the Engine.
I think the mixture screw will start working once the throttle plate's cracked wide enough to get a proper idle speed.
Quote:
When the Transmission was ready to be checked out, the Dip Stick showed absolutely no sign of ATF, although the Engine had been run a while.
Specs say that it takes 16 pints. Put in 10, and started Lorrie up. Put her in Reverse, then into Neutral and then to Drive, then back into Neutral and checked the Dipstick. Dan, the ATF is about an inch above the Full Level Mark. Is Lorrie in any danger?
If you're an inch above "Full" with engine running in Neutral after having been Drive/Reverse cycled, yeah, you need to remove fluid so it's not overfull or the fluid will be whipped into useless foam and damage stuff/create leaks.
Quote:
There is a problem with the Shifter though. It will go into Park, Reverse, Neutral and Drive, but not into Second or First.
H'mm. Does the shift lever bind/stop at Drive and physically prevent you moving to 2 or 1? Or does the lever go to 2 and 1 but the trans doesn't respond?

Sounds like continued progress!

Oh, and what gasket did you use between carb and intake manifold? Thin or thick?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Hey Daniel,
Quote:
That's about 300 rpm too slow -- go ahead and get a slightly longer screw.
Next time I'm out.
Quote:
I think the mixture screw will start working once the throttle plate's cracked wide enough to get a proper idle speed.
Alright.
Quote:
If you're an inch above "Full" with engine running in Neutral after having been Drive/Reverse cycled, yeah, you need to remove fluid so it's not overfull or the fluid will be whipped into useless foam and damage stuff/create leaks.
Have to find out how is THAT done?
Quote:
H'mm. Does the shift lever bind/stop at Drive and physically prevent you moving to 2 or 1?
Yes.
Quote:
Or does the lever go to 2 and 1 but the trans doesn't respond?
No. The Shift Lever will go into "P", "R", "N", and "D". It physically won't go into "2" or "1". Needs to be taken apart, cleaned, and lubricated.

Also, with the Rear Axle on Jack Stands, have run the Rear Wheels. The Transmission shifts into Second Gear at about 19 MPH, but have had the Speedometer up to 40 MPH, and can't feel it shift into Third Gear.
Quote:
Sounds like continued progress!
Step-by-step. Little-by-little.
Quote:
Oh, and what gasket did you use between carb and intake manifold? Thin or thick?
There's a 5/16" Phenolic Spacer that came with the Manifold, and then a 3/32" Gasket that came with the Holley 1920 rebuild kit.

Anyway, am going to do some research on how to remove ATF from an A727 Transmission.

Thanks for the response Daniel.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Quote:
If you're an inch above "Full" with engine running in Neutral after having been Drive/Reverse cycled, yeah, you need to remove fluid so it's not overfull or the fluid will be whipped into useless foam and damage stuff/create leaks.
Hey Daniel,
The thought occurs to me that maybe the ATF can be drained by removing one of the Transmission Cooling Hoses that goes into the Radiator. Would THIS be alright?

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:26 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Location: Amarillo, Tx USA
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I havent been posting in thread as to many can spoil the pot so to speak, but that IS one way to remove fluid, altho a very messy one, as the engine has to be running for the fluid to flow. Rent/ buy an inexpensive vacuum pump, put a small enough rubber line down the dipstick, and connect to vacuum pump, with outlet side of pump also connected to a rubber line, suck the fluid out into a container, when you retrieve appx 1 qt stop, retrieve hose from dipstick tube, and re-check fluid level in trans as you did before..

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Quote:
I havent been posting in thread as too many can spoil the pot so to speak, but that IS one way to remove fluid, altho a very messy one, as the engine has to be running for the fluid to flow.
Hey Mr. OF,
Didn't think of THAT.
Quote:
Rent/ buy an inexpensive vacuum pump, put a small enough rubber line down the dipstick, and connect to vacuum pump, with outlet side of pump also connected to a rubber line, suck the fluid out into a container, when you retrieve appx 1 qt stop, retrieve hose from dipstick tube, and re-check fluid level in trans as you did before..


Will have to check to see what's available in the way of vacuum pumps out here in the boondocks of Deep East Texas.

See that you're in Amarillo. I'm in Onalaska, 33 miles East of Huntsville. Closest place that might have a vacuum pump will be Livingston, Texas, which is 13 miles East of here.

Anyway, thanks for the response, and the suggestion. Will let you know what is found.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:24 pm 
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I'm onboard with the vacuum pump idea to remove excess fluid, though if it'll be an enormous hassle to get one, you can also remove the cover plate at the bottom front face of the bellhousing, rotate the engine (starter motor) until the torque converter drain plug is at the bottom, remove it and drain some fluid out that way.

Binding shifter could be any of several problems…by all means go in and lubricate everything, but no perceived shift into 3rd has me a leetle worried there may be more involved fixes required. This is a cable-operated shifter, you say? I am not familiar with how the shift linkage was set up on a right-hand drive truck like yours.
Quote:
There's a 5/16" Phenolic Spacer that came with the Manifold, and then a 3/32" Gasket that came with the Holley 1920 rebuild kit.
That'll be a '73-up phenolic spacer. Not really mean to be reused, but you can if you put a thin gasket above and below. Keep an eye open for signs of vacuum leak at the carb-to-manifold junction. Also you'll have less than optimal PCV flow if you don't either make a channel in the phenolic below the PCV hole or drill the phenolic (using the gasket as a guide) to access the PCV hole in the intake manifold's carb mount flange. Check for that hole, though, because some of the latest-production manifolds don't have it. Another way to achieve the same is to grind/raise the wall of the cutout of the PCV inlet at the throttle bore, being careful not to raise it so high as to bridge the throttle plate when it is fully closed. Also check for proper vacuum at the distributor vacuum advance nipple with the throttle above idle speed. I don't recall if the Stromberg W has channels into the throttle bore so you can use a solid phenolic spacer, or if you need channels to provide vacuum for the distributor and for the choke pull-off piston.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:50 pm 
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Location: Eugene, Oregon
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You might try a turkey baster with a long plastic hose put down the dipstick tube, it is cheap and not requiring getting under the rig.

Richard

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:32 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Quote:
I'm onboard with the vacuum pump idea to remove excess fluid, though if it'll be an enormous hassle to get one, you can also remove the cover plate at the bottom front face of the bellhousing, rotate the engine (starter motor) until the torque converter drain plug is at the bottom, remove it and drain some fluid out that way.
Hey Daniel,
So far, there are three ways to remove ATF from the Transmission:

One is through the ATF Cooling Tubes to the Radiator. Messy, and takes the Engine running to work.

Two is by using a vacuum pump or some kind of syringe to remove the ATF through the Filler Tube.

Three is by draining the ATF from the Torque Converter.

But last night, while contemplating this problem, the question arose: How is that the Transmission was low on ATF in the first place? And the answer to that question is: It leaked out through the Rear Transmission Seal! That was why the Rear Transmission Seal was replaced just a month ago.

So now, I asked myself: If the ATF came out of the Rear Transmission Seal back then, why wouldn't it be possible to, with a nice clean Kettle under the rear of the Transmission, just take down the Rear Universal Joint, and remove the Drive Shaft from the Transmission? The ATF would then drain out over the Rear Transmission Seal, which shouldn't hurt it at all.

Then all that would have to be done is to replace the Drive Shaft and this time not be so liberal with the addition of ATF.

Whaddaya think?
Quote:
Binding shifter could be any of several problems…by all means go in and lubricate everything, but no perceived shift into 3rd has me a leetle worried there may be more involved fixes required.
You know Daniel, this area is rife with Mud Dauber Wasps! When the Instrument Panel was removed to rewire all the Gauges, there was a HUGE Mud Dauber Nest (fortunately abandoned) on the back of the Tachometer. It may be that there is a Mud Dauber Wasp nest on the back side of the Shifter.

If that is not so, there has to be a way to remove that Cable and Sheath to clean and lubricate it. The job could be made easier because of a HUGE Access Panel that permits access to the Transmission. It takes taking out about six Bolts and removing the Access Panel which is about 4'-0" Square.
Quote:
This is a cable-operated shifter, you say?
Yes.
Quote:
I am not familiar with how the shift linkage was set up on a right-hand drive truck like yours.
It's just a Flexible Cable.

One time while towing a trailer, was going up an incline, and decided to shift into a lower gear. But when the Shift Lever was moved, it did not accomplish the shift. Lorrie was stopped, and inspected, and it was found that the "Pin" that connects the end of the Flexible Cable had come out, and was not able to mover the Shift Crank on the Transmission. A Pin was fashioned out of a clothes hanger, and we continued on. Upon reaching our destination it was found that one of the tires on the Trailer had gone flat. Upon inspection of the Tire, the Pin that had come out of the Transmission was found to be what caused the puncture! It was retrieved and reinstalled in Lorrie Transmission. :)
Quote:
That'll be a '73-up phenolic spacer. Not really mean to be reused, but you can if you put a thin gasket above and below. Keep an eye open for signs of vacuum leak at the carb-to-manifold junction.
Alright.
Quote:
Also you'll have less than optimal PCV flow if you don't either make a channel in the phenolic below the PCV hole or drill the phenolic (using the gasket as a guide) to access the PCV hole in the intake manifold's carb mount flange.
Will check on this.
Quote:
Check for that hole, though, because some of the latest-production manifolds don't have it.
Alright.
Quote:
Another way to achieve the same is to grind/raise the wall of the cutout of the PCV inlet at the throttle bore, being careful not to raise it so high as to bridge the throttle plate when it is fully closed.
Am not quite clear about what this paragraph means, but it may become clear when the situation is perused.
Quote:
Also check for proper vacuum at the distributor vacuum advance nipple with the throttle above idle speed.
Will have to find out how to do this, and what it takes to accomplish the task.
Quote:
I don't recall if the Stromberg W has channels into the throttle bore so you can use a solid phenolic spacer, or if you need channels to provide vacuum for the distributor and for the choke pull-off piston.
I don't know either, but here is a view of the Bottom of the Stromberg W.

Image

Might you be able to tell from this JPG?

Anyway, kind of overdid it yesterday and am quite fatigued today. Need a day of rest to get back to operating mode.

Thanks for GREAT information. Let me know what you think about draining the Transmission through the Rear Seal. It happened accidentally years ago. It should be made to happen on purpose NOW.

Hope you are wel;.

Regards,

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


Last edited by JCAllison on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:51 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Quote:
You might try a turkey baster with a long plastic hose put down the dipstick tube, it is cheap and not requiring getting under the rig. Richard
Hey Richard,
A Turkey Baster IS available at the local Grocery Store!

But did you see the idea that was proposed in the post to SlantSixDan, about taking out the Drive Shaft and letting the Transmission drain through the Rear Seal?

Whaddaya think about THAT?

Anyway, thanks for the response and suggestion. THAT may be the way that this will be done.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:57 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Quote:
I don't recall if the Stromberg W has channels into the throttle bore so you can use a solid phenolic spacer, or if you need channels to provide vacuum for the distributor and for the choke pull-off piston.
Hey Daniel,
It appears on the JPG that all the Vacuum Holes have channels into the the Throttle Bore. :)

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:44 am 
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I agree with you, all three vacuum ports (distributor, choke, PCV) have channels, but you'd still want to make sure there's adequate PCV flow by either completing the 1/4" hole all the way up through the gasket/spacer, or channelling the spacer anglewise.

You could drain trans fluid out the back by removing the output yoke or by removing the speedometer cable.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:36 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Quote:
I agree with you, all three vacuum ports (distributor, choke, PCV) have channels,
Hey Daniel,
Have a question about the Distributor Vacuum. While working on the Distributor, I sucked on the hose going to the Distributor Vacuum Advance Diaphragm, and the mechanism in the Distributor moved (rotated) about 1/4" to 5/16".

How FAR should the mechanism in the Distributor travel?
Quote:
but you'd still want to make sure there's adequate PCV flow by either completing the 1/4" hole all the way up through the gasket/spacer, or channeling the spacer anglewise.
Strangely, I know EXACTLY what you mean by "channeling" the Spacer "anglewise". Can do that with the Craftsman RotoTool.
Quote:
You could drain trans fluid out the back by removing the output yoke


Just as was suspected.
Quote:
or by removing the speedometer cable.
THAT would probably the most simple solution.

Will check that out, and let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the response and suggestions.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Quote:
Have a question about the Distributor Vacuum. While working on the Distributor, I sucked on the hose going to the Distributor Vacuum Advance Diaphragm, and the mechanism in the Distributor moved (rotated) about 1/4" to 5/16".
That's just about right.
Quote:
THAT would probably the most simple solution.
Remove the bolt that holds the speedo drive pinion adaptor into the transmission and pull the cable, adaptor, and gear out as an assembly. Just unscrewing the cable from the adaptor won't drain any fluid.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 871
Location: Onalaska, Texas
Car Model: 1967 Dodge P200 Post Office Vehicle
Quote:
That's just about right.
Hey Daniel,
GREAT! The Distributor is really in an awkward place in which to work. Especially since the Seat is on the Right Side of the Vehicle.
Quote:
Remove the bolt that holds the speedo drive pinion adapter into the transmission and pull the cable, adapter, and gear out as an assembly. Just unscrewing the cable from the adapter won't drain any fluid.
Well, pulling the Speedometer Cable was not a good option as there is a Frame Cross Member right under it.

Instead, the Rear Universal Joint was taken down and the Drive Shaft Output Yoke was pulled out of the Rear Transmission Seal. The ATF drained and drained. Got out the Hydraulic Jack and jacked up Lorrie's Front End to help the process a bit.

Haven't yet measured how much ATF came out, but started Lorrie up, let her run till she had reached operating temperature, and then did the Neutral, to Reverse, to Neutral, to Drive, to Neutral sequence and checked the Transmission Dip Stick. It checked out to be EXACTLY on the "Full" line. :)

So: "All's well that ends well."

BUT, Lorrie isn't running very smoothly. Has a shake that doesn't go away as the RPMs increase. She didn't want to start, but THAT was probably my fault for maybe giving her too much Gas. Tried to start her like Ms. American which involves a couple of stabs on the Accelerator.

The rough running could also have something to do with the Idle Mixture Screw adjustment, but nothing can be done about THAT till a longer Idle Speed Screw is acquired, which will be tomorrow if it isn't raining.

Everything seems to be alright with Lorrie, except for the stuff that hasn't yet been taken care of (Shift Lever, Carburetor Adjustment, Transmission not wanting to go into Third Gear when in "D". And there may be other stuff that will be revealed as time goes on).

In any case, will be continuing to trudge on.

Thanks for the response.

Hope YOU are well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Quote:
GREAT! The Distributor is really in an awkward place in which to work. Especially since the Seat is on the Right Side of the Vehicle.
Always remove the distributor to work on it. No point trying to replace points or anything with it installed. Done an electronic ignition conversion yet? HEI upgrade.
Quote:
BUT, Lorrie isn't running very smoothly. Has a shake that doesn't go away as the RPMs increase.
Ignition system and valve adjustment. Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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