Hey All,
Got Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six put back together after doing the NEW Timing Tab Caper, and started it up this morning.

Normally when that happens, the Ammeter Needle shows a momentary charge of 30 Amps and then settles down to being just above the middle line on the Ammeter Gauge. This didn't happen today.

So after bringing the temperature up to 160, the Multi-Tester was used to check the Battery.

With the Engine running, the Voltage at the Battery was 11.82.

Have previously checked Lorrie's Battery with the Engine running and the Multi-Tester showed almost 14 Volts at the Battery Terminals.

So when the Ammeter didn't show any charge this morning, the Engine was shut down, and the Battery was checked again without the Engine running.

The voltage was 11.92.

The other day, some immovable Sheet Metal was removed using a Grinder and a Cutting Wheel. This was done in preparation for the addition of some EASILY REMOVABLE Sheet Metal Panels to make it possible to remove the Radiator without having to remove the Front Bumper.

So this morning when Lorrie's Battery wasn't getting any charge, the thought occurred to me that maybe some of the metal dust from cutting the Sheet Metal had gotten into the Alternator, and maybe ruined it.

Fortunately, there was a NEW Alternator on hand here, so the OLD unit was swapped out for the NEW unit.

Started Lorrie's Engine, and the NEW Alternator had no effect on the situation.

Lorrie's Battery is still at 11.92 Volts with the Engine NOT running (BTW, the other day the Battery was at 12.72 Volts), and with the Engine running it was again at 11.82.

Have done nothing to the Electrical System, other than what was mentioned above to change the situation from what it was previously, but SOMETHING has changed.

Lorrie's Battery is not being charged when the Engine is running like it was the other day.

Noticed the thread by 64conv65hard regarding the Alternator and Regulator.

Daniel says to disconnect the Field Wire from the Alternator and then attach a Test Lead between the Batt Terminal of the Alternator and the Field Terminal to see if the Alternator starts charging.

Need some clarification on this:

Does one disconnect the Field Wire from the Alternator, then start the Engine, and use the Multi-Tester between the Batt Terminal of the Alternator and the Field Terminal of the Alternator, with the Positive Lead (Red) on the Batt Terminal, and the Negative Lead (Black) on the Field Terminal.

What should the Multi-Tester be expected to read (almost 14 V?)?

Any information would be GREATLY appreciated.

Anyway, Lorrie's Engine is running good. There are some slight puffs (misses) at the Tail Pipe while the Engine is reaching operating temperature. But as soon as the Thermostat opens, and the Choke is all the way open, they go away and the Engine runs REALLY well.

TIA

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Don't know if this is relevant, but here is Lorrie Van Haul's Wiring Diagram. There MIGHT be something about it that is causing the problem of the Alternator not charging the Battery, though up until this morning, it was all working just fine.



Comments encouraged.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Sunday Afternoon Update:

Went out this morning and put the Battery Charger on Lorrie's Battery and brought it up to 12.79 Volts.

Then the thought occurred that it might be something wrong with the Alternator Regulator.

Fortunately there was a NEW Alternator Regulator on hand here. So this morning, the OLD unit was swapped out for the NEW unit.

Started Lorrie's Engine and the NEW Alternator Regulator had no effect on the situation.

Lorrie's Battery is not being charged when the Engine is running just like yesterday.

Got to thinking back on all this, and all this has happened SINCE installing the NEW Fuel Gauge and Sender.

Which brings us to THESE factors:

There is a "WARNING" on the Alternator Regulator that says: "Do NOT short any terminals to ground".

The Sender Unit in the Gas Tank has a Wire from its Flange that is Grounded.

The Fuel Gauge is Grounded through its Mounting Bridge to the Dash Panel. It is most surely grounded because when one touches the Wire coming from the Sender Unit to the Fuel Gauge to the Dash Panel, the Fuel Gauge Needle "pegs" above "F" (for Full).

In order for the Fuel Gauge to work only when the Ignition System is on, it has to get its power from a source connected to the Run Switch on the Dash Panel.

There is a Wire connected to the Run Switch that goes to the "IGN" Terminal of the Alternator Regulator.

A Wire was spliced into THAT Wire between the Run Switch to the IGN Terminal on the Alternator Regulator and subsequently was run to the "I" (for Ignition) Terminal of the Fuel Gauge.

Could it be that THAT setup has possibly shorted the "IGN" Terminal of the Alternator Regulator to Ground through the Fuel Gauge System?

So this morning, the Fuel Gauge "I" Terminal Wire was disconnected from the Wire that goes from the Run Switch to the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator, and the Engine started. There Ammeter showed no charge. The measurement of the Battery with the Engine NOT running is 12.79 Volts. With the Engine running it is at 12.69 Volts.

Anyway, this is where Lorrie stands at the moment. Pretty much "dead in the water".

Any comments?

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Sunday Evening Update:

Chasing what is wrong with Lorrie's Battery not being charged.

Have checked the ground from the case of the Alternator to the case of the Alternator Regulator. It has continuity.

Have checked the Alternator Regulator's Field Terminal to the Case for continuity, and it TOO is a closed circuit!

Seeing as to how the WARNING on the Alternator Regulator says NOT to short either the IGN nor the Field Terminals to Ground, wouldn't the fact that the Field Terminal and the Ground on the Alternator Regulator Case is a closed circuit indicate that the Field Circuit is grounded?

Took the cover off of the OLD Alternator Regulator, and there was something between the Contact Points both on TOP and UNDERNEATH the Points.

Cleaned off whatever it was with a No, 11 Exacto Blade. This freed up the Contact Points, but that didn't change the fact that the Field Terminal to Case is STILL a closed circuit.

Would those Contact Points being shorted in this manner mess up the Alternator? Or would it just mean that all the Alternator Output would be sent to Ground?

Am hoping that that's ALL that would happen.

Removed the NEW Regulator from Lorrie, and took the Case off to see if it too had the Contact Points shorted. They were, but not as bad as the OLD Alternator Regulator.

Cleaned the NEW Alternator Regulator's Contact Points, BUT even though the Contact Points are no longer shorted, there is still continuity between the Field Terminal and the Case.

Got to looking at the Alternator Regulators really carefully and have noticed that on one side there is a small wire and on the other side there is the ends of a similar small wire but it is melted and no longer there.

Both Alternator Regulators are the same way.

There MAY be OTHER problems, but both of these Alternator Regulators are definitely toast.

Have to find out WHY this is happening.

Am suspecting it has something to do with the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit Circuit being spliced into the Wire from the Run Switch to the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator because BEFORE the NEW Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit was installed, Lorrie's Battery was being charged normally.

The Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit Circuit is Grounded.

The fact that the "I" (for Ignition) Terminal of the Fuel Gauge was connected to the Wire going from the Run Switch to the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator COULD mean that the IGN Terminal of the Alternator Regulator was shorted to Ground through the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit and THAT is what is causing this problem.

Am going to reroute the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit to another Switch separate from the Run Switch.

Will be getting another Alternator Regulator tomorrow. Will also be having the OLD Alternator checked at AutoZone.

Is any of this making any sense?

Comments would be MUCH appreciated.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I wish I could offer some advice, but this sort of electrical troubleshooting is beyond my ken. Good luck!

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Hey Reed,
Thanks for the response.

After perusing the situation, have come to the conclusion that the TWO Alternator Regulators can be FIXED! No, HONEST!

There is this little, soft Wire that wraps around a Terminal and then bridges to another Terminal. There are two such wires on each Alternator Regulator.

Have unwrapped the two ends of the these Wires, and there is enough of it to splice it back together and reconnect it to the two Terminals.

Rather than just tell you about it, will take some JPGs of the situation. And will post the JPGs when the repairs are finished.

Then am going to reinstall one of the Alternator Regulators with the Fuel Gauge/Sending Unit Circuit removed from the Start/Ignition/Charge Circuit, and see if things will return to normal.

If they do, then the Fuel Gauge/Sending Unit Circuit will be rerouted to be completely separate from the Start/Ignition/Charge Circuit.

Will, of course keep YOU updated.

Anyway, all this is quite a liberal education. Am UP for it!

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Have you tried hooking the battery terminal from the alternator to the positive on the battery? The way my ameter is hooked up is there is a welded splice that both wires to the ameter soldered to that goes to a fuseible link then to the battery. Maybe try that. Id try and get dans advice though. Maybe send him a PM.

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Old truck: 82 D150 225, 2bbl, dutra duals, 2.5" straight pipe to dual 2.5" tail pipes. Mud tires, 4spd, old forest service truck.
Current truck: 98.5 Ram 2500 ccsb, sport, 24v cummins, 5spd, 4.5" lift, 35's, 5" straight pipe.

Those fine wires in the regulators act like fuses.

You can also use small gauge enameled wire to replace them.

24 gauge ~ 30 amps
26 gauge ~ 20 amps
28 gauge ~ 15 amps
30 gauge ~ 10 amps
34 gauge ~ 5 amps


http://www.litz-wire.com/New%20PDFs/Fus ... 011609.pdf

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Ed
64 Valiant 225 / 904 / 42:1 manual steering / 9" drum brakes

Hey Ross,
No. The "Batt" terminal of the Alternator is hooked to the Ammeter "In" Terminal and the Ammeter "Out" Terminal is connected to the Positive Terminal on the Battery. NOT directly, but thorough the Fuse Panel.

All this was working wondrously until the NEW Fuel Gauge/Sender was installed.
That's pretty much how it IS hooked up.
Alright.

Will be out and about this morning and will be taking the OLD Alternator to AutoZone to have it checked. Am hoping it is not burnt out. If it is, then the NEW Alternator will probably ALSO be toast. Am going to get a couple of NEW Alternator Regulators.

Will check them to see if there is continuity between the Field Terminal and the Case, which gets grounded through the Mounting Screws. If there isn't continuity, then will just toss the other two Alternator Regulators because they DO have continuity between the Field Terminal and the Case.

If perchance a NEW Alternator Regulator DOES have continuity between the Field Terminal, then will put one of the "fixed" Alternator Regulators back into Lorrie and see if the Alternator will charge the Battery with the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit removed from the Circuit.

Will keep you all updated.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. E,
Kind of figured as much seeing as to how in BOTH Alternator Regulators they were burnt.

Am hoping that those wires being burnt has protected the Alternators.

Anyway, thanks for the information and the response.

Hope YOU are well.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Monday Morning Update:

Was out of here by 8:00 a.m. to Livingston. Took the OLD Alternator, and one of the Alternator Regulators with me.

First stop: AutoZone.

Had them test the Alternator.

It FAILED the test.

Second stop: NAPA.

Ordered two NEW Alternator Regulators ($31.41).

They will be in tomorrow morning, and my neighbor will pick them up on the way home from work.

They should be here tomorrow evening.

Got NAPA's price on their Alternators. All they can get is re-manufactured units for $60.00 plus shipping which would be another $40.00 (estimated). But the counter guy at NAPA said to stop by Smith Auto Electric because they rebuild Alternators.

Did some other errands, and headed home, but stopped by Smith Auto Electric on the way, and told them what had happened, and about the NEW Stewart Warner Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit installation, and the tech at Smith confirmed that what had been done would result in a burnt Alternator Regulator.

Asked him if that would ALSO burn up an Alternator? He said it shouldn't.

Told him that AutoZone had tested the Alternator, and that it had failed the test.

He and a couple of the other techs at Smith rolled their eyes, and shook their heads sadly, and one of them asked if the Alternator was available for them to test, which it was.

So Smith Auto Electric tested the Alternator, and Alternator Regulator and concluded that there was nothing wrong with the Alternator, but that the Alternator Regulator was burnt.

Anyway, the upshot of all this is:

Am going to install a NEW Alternator Regulator.

Am going to remove the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit Circuit entirely from the Start/Run/Charge Circuit.

Am going to disconnect the Tachometer entirely from the Start/Run/Charge Circuit.

Hopefully this will solve the problem, and Lorrie can be gotten back on track to being finished.

Will keep you all updated as events occur.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Tuesday Morning Update:

Am going to be purifying the Start/Run/Charge Circuitry this morning.

Will keep you all updated.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I am very surprised that Dan hasn't piped up on this matter... But we are awaiting results JC.....

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MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Other than to sale parts I wonder why the "Smith Boys" has the faith that they did have in the AZ alt 'test'? I am assuming that it has happened in the past tho.... And thats why I take MY alt to a local shop here first for testing, then MAYBE to AZ next... BUT most often than not the local shop beats the price AZ quotes... And if not I have the option of going to AZ anyways or helping the LOCAL economy, as the price is usually with in 5 bux or so IF/WHEN they are higher.
Sounds like a reasonable plan. You can always completely remove the circuit and use a separate switch, or use a relay to 'trigger' it from the key switch....


I am not for sure how the Tach got involved but if it was all working properly before hand the tach would not be a 'culprit'...
Hopefully it does solve the issues @ hand. Its been a big enough piece of meat now for awhile. Hope Ya get a handle on it and hope it can be done in a timely manner to keep ya outta the heat of the day...


Have a GREAT Day, JC

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MRO....

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.... Pick 2...

Hey Mr. OF,
It's alright. Have been making progress regardless.
Just got back from picking up the two NEW Alternator Regulators. Also had some other stuff of which to take care.

It's a little too hot to be out working on Lorrie, but earlier this morning, prepared another connection to the Fuse Panel and ran a NEW 12 Volt Wire to a NEW Toggle Switch and connected the Fuel Gauge/Sender Unit AND the Tachometer to that Circuit.

That leaves the Start/Run/Charge Circuit completely isolated from any other Circuit.

All that has to be done now is to bolt in the NEW Alternator Regulator, hook up the Field Wire, the IGN wire, the Battery's Negative Cable, and the Ground from the Sender Unit, and Lorrie should be good to go.

If THIS doesn't solve the charging problem, then we're in deep sh!t, because there isn't anything else to check.

Will let you know how it goes, when it goes.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor