OUCH!

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Monday Morning Update:

Have to get out and about this morning to do the weekly errands and shopping. Will be going to the Hardware store to see if they have the other half of the Fitting that is on the end of the Wires coming out of the NEW Electronic Distributor.

Upon returning home, will be measuring and fabricating the Wires necessary to hook up the entire HEI System.

Will be removing the Ballast Resistor and its wiring.

Will be removing the HEI Assembly to do some detailing, then reinstalling it and hooking it all up.

There may be some questions about this.

Will be ordering a set of Gray Booted, Black MSD 8.5mm Spark Plug Wires and seven Socket to HEI Distributor Conversion Towers from SummitRacing.

Will be removing the NGK ZFR5N Spark Plugs and re-gapping them to 0.045 inches and reinstalling them.

Will get the Fresh Air Hose installed along the way.

When finished, will see if Lorrie will start and run.

It's HOT here, and the weather guessers are predicting rain. But they were predicting rain yesterday, but we got nary a drop.

So depending on the weather, my physical energy, and how often I have to launder my pants and shoes, it appears that sometime this week, Lorrie should, if everything has been done right, be up and running. That is, IF in fact what was keeping her from so doing six weeks ago tomorrow was the OLD Ignition System. Only time will tell.

If what was wrong is corrected by the installation of this HEI Ignition System, Lorrie will be all set to go get her NEW Inspection Sticker. Again, only time will tell.

Hope this finds you all doing well.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Monday Morning Update:

Just finished ordering the MSD 31183 Spark Plug Wires, and the Socket to HEI Conversion Towers for the Distributor.

Am awaiting confirmation and tracking data.

Will keep you all updated on developments.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

:shrug: I've never used fancy new parts, only grungy junkyard parts. If I remember right, on the e-core coil in my 89 Ford van the green wire with the yellow tracer is the (-) feed for the coil (that is what I hooked my tach to). I have no idea what the wiring is for the plug you purchased from Napa. Maybe someone else knows?

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Hey Reed,
I envy your access to "grungy junkyards".
On the Standard Brand S-539 Socket/Pigtail Assembly, there are TWO Green w/Yellow Stripe Wires connected to one Terminal. And in order to get the 12 Volt Source from the Run Switch to not only the Ignition Coil but also from there to the "B" Terminal on the Control Module, the 12 Volt Source from the Run Switch would have to be connected to one of the Green Wires, and the other Green Wire run to the "B" Terminal of the Control Module. That would mean that the Red Wire would go from the (-) Terminal to the "C" Terminal of the Control Module.
Actually, the Standard Brand S-539 Socket/Pigtail didn't come from NAPA. It came from SummitRacing. It is EXACTLY the Socket/Pigtail shown in Daniel's Article. And it fits into the EXACT Ignition Coil shown in Daniel's Article.
Have been looking at the links in Daniel's Article about the HEI Conversion and have found all kinds of discrepancies in the explanations of how it is all hooked up.

Need the answer to one simple question: How can one tell which Terminal on the Standard Blue Streak FD4778X Ignition Coil is the (+) Primary?

After looking at ALL the diagrams, it's turning out to be like a paraphrase of the old Confucious saying: "Man with more than one watch never knows what time it REALLY is."

Looking at the various conflicting Wiring Diagrams: "Man with more than one diagram never knows which Diagram is the PROPER way to hook all this up."

One would think that the Ignition Coil would have some indication as to which side of the Socket Connector is (+) and which side is (-).

A bit later today, will be doing a detailing of the various Wiring Diagrams showing the discrepancies.

Also, one of the pages referenced in Daniel's Article says to E-Mail him with questions. Might have to do that if no one here actually "knows", or actually "knows", but isn't motivated, for whatever reason, to supply the answer.

Nonetheless, this will eventually get done PROPERLY and then I WILL be the guy that I'm looking for to provide definitive answers regarding this situation.

Anyway Reed, thanks for the response. Hope this finds YOU having a GREAT day.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be obtuse. The Standard FD-47 series coil is the same as the coil on my 89 Ford van. The Standard S-539 coil plug is also the replacement plug for my van. On my van, the green wire with the yellow tracer is the coil (-) feed. I would assume, then, that on the plug you got the red wire is the (+) feed. I can take a picture for you of my coil in a bit.

One of the green/yellow wires goes to "C" on the HEI module, the other is either not used or feeds your tachometer. The red wire is the (+) battery feed. The red coil wire will not necessarily be the same wire that provides the (+) feed to the HEI module. It can be to simplify the wiring, but it doesn't have to be. What is important is that both the coil and the HEI module get a (+) feed, preferably through a relay.

I read Dan's HEI conversion instructions again and see what might be confusing you. The initial instructions refer to and recommend the Ford E-core coil Standard FD-47, but the pictures of the GM all-in-one bracket use a different coil. The discussion of terminals A, B, and C immediately following the three pictures in the "combination coil/module/ heat sink/ bracket" section is referring to the A, B, and C terminals on the GM coil, NOT the A, B, and C terminals on the HEI module. Also, the final wiring diagram picture depicts how the system is wired using the GM coil, NOT the Ford coil (FD-47).
When using the Ford coil, the (+) feed from relay terminal 87 will need to be split to feed the red wire on the coil plug and the B terminal on the HEI module. Disregard how the final wiring diagram shows the wiring at the coil. Hope that helps.

I think the HEI article should be updated to include a wiring diagram for the Ford coil. I could draw and scan one, but my handwriting is terrible.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Hey All,
Tuesday Morning Update:

Here is a GIF of the Wiring Diagram for Lorrie Van Haul's HEI Electronic Ignition System Conversion.



Have made the assumption that since the Green Wires are connected at the SAME Terminal of the Standard Brand S-539 Socket/Pigtail Assembly, and the Socket can only fit into the Receptor on the Standard Blue Streak Brand FD478 Ignition Coil in ONE position, that the Terminal to which they fit is the (+) Primary of the Ignition Coil.

One of the Green Wires on the Socket goes TO the "B" Terminal on the Standard Brand LX301 Control Module. The other Green Wire goes TO the Run Switch, and supplies 12 Volts to the Coil and TO the "B" Terminal of the Control Module.

That means that the Red Wire is connected TO the (-) Primary of the Ignition Coil, and is connected TO the "C" Terminal of the Control Module.

The Black Wire FROM the Distributor goes TO the "G" Terminal of the Control Module.

The White Wire FROM the Distributor goes TO the "W" Terminal of the Control Module.

Is this layout CORRECT?

TIA in advance for comments.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

You've got the coil wires backwards. Green is coil negative, red is coil positive.

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Hey Reed,
Never for an instant believed that you were. You have been one of the most helpful.
Reed, in the post immediately previous to THIS Post, is a Wiring Diagram. The fact that the two Green Wires have places to go has led me to assume that the Terminal on the Ignition Coil to which the Green Wires are connected when the Socket/Pigtail Assembly is in place is the (+) Terminal of the Ignition Coil.
This whole issue could be cleared up once and for all if one could DEFINITELY determine which Terminal on the Ignition Coil is the (+) Primary and which is the (-) Primary.
The reason that the Wiring Diagram shows the Red Wire as coming FROM the (-) Primary of the Ignition Coil TO the "C" Terminal of the Control Module is because there would have to be another Wire going TO the Run Switch's 12 Volt Supply, and there is no way to connect that up.
But there is NO way to connect the Red Wire to both the (+) Primary of the Ignition Coil AND to the Run Switch's 12 Volt Power Supply.
Am hoping that this is NOT right.
That is just one example of the lack of clarity.
There are NOT three Terminals on the FD478X Ignition Coil, unless you want to count the Terminal that feeds the Rotor in the Distributor as a Terminal.

There is on the FD478X Ignition Coil only TWO Terminals.

When the Socket/Pigtail is hooked up, there are two Green Wires going to one Terminal, and a Red wire going to the other Terminal.
That is not noted. Another example of lack of clarity.
Ford... GMC... The need to split the Red Wire... None of this is mentioned in the Article. Another example of lack of clarity.
If it needs to be disregarded, why is it there? Another example of lack of clarity.
And maybe fix the rest of the obtuseness while one is at it.
Am afraid that we now have two PRECISELY contradictory versions of how this HEI Electronic Ignition System Conversion should be wired.

The whole thing could be cleared up by DEFINITELY determining which Terminal on the FD478X Ignition Coil is the (+) Primary.

Am off to do the research on that.

Will let you know what is found.

Anyway Reed, I want to thank YOU for taking the time and making the effort to help on this caper. It would be GREAT if everyone were as willing as YOU, if you get my drift.

Alas...

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Reed,
Alright.
Is this some kind of standard thing?

QUESTION:

If the Ignition Coil MUST receive 12 Volts from the Run Switch, and also supply 12 Volts to the "B" Terminal of the Control Module, WHY didn't the manufacturer put two Red Wires instead of just one in the Socket/Pigtail Assembly?

They put TWO Green Wires on the other Terminal of the Socket/Pigtail Assembly, and one of them is useless unless one is running a Tachometer.

Also, I wonder WHY the manufacturer didn't put any indicators on either the FD478X Ignition Coil, OR the S-539 Socket/Pigtail Assembly delineating which Terminal is (+) and which is (-).

Is it just me, or is this pi$$ poor design?

Have just finished attempting to get some information on the FD478X Ignition Coil. Have not found any technical specification of the unit.

Awaiting the arrival of the MSD 31184 8.5mm Spark Plug Wires and seven of the Socket to HEI Conversion Towers from SummitRacing. They should be here on Thursday or Friday. We have till then to get this Wiring sorted out.

Anyway, am NOT going to hook it all up either way until I am POSITIVE about the order of things.

Thanks for the response. Hope YOU are well.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

OK JC, now you asked for it. Here is my hand-drawn wiring diagram for YOU to wire up YOUR specific HEI system using the parts you have on hand. Note that the plug should only go onto the coil one way, so whatever side the red wire goes to is the (+) side.



You will have one extra green wire left over. Snip it, use it to provide a signal to a tachometer, or ignore it. As is stated in the HEI instruction article, the terminals for the distributor pickup leads will be determined by trial and error.

There are only two terminals on the Ford stye coil, but, as is stated in the article, the GM coil has three. I believe this, combined with the fact that the GM coil and the HEI module both have terminals referred to as "B" and "C," is the source of your confusion. Follow the wiring diagram above and you will be fine.

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Yes, on the Fords for which that plug is the stock replacement part, that is the standard wiring color scheme. Remember, you are using a part for a non-intended use. It will work fine, but it isn't what the part was originally intended for. I am sure the two (-) coil wires serve some purpose in the original application, but not here.
It is just you. The design is perfectly fine when the coil plug is used IN ITS ORIGINAL INTENDED APPLICATION. The plug was not originally designed to retrofit a GM ignition module triggering a Ford coil on a Chrysler motor, which is what you are doing. As I said above, the original Ford wiring harness had the (+) feed red, the (-) feed green with a yellow tracer, and two (-) feeds for some good reason. Your van doesn't need two (-) coil feeds, so you can ignore one of them.

No indicators were necessary for (+) and (-) on the coil because the coil plug only goes on one way. So long as the replacement plug was installed on a vehicle the plug was designed for, all the user has to do is match the wire colors. It is a pretty no-brainer system. Remember, you are using the plug in an application it was in no way intended for.

_________________
Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Hey Reed,
Sock it to me!
Alas, I do not have the Relay that you reference.
Right.
Alright.
Lorrie DOES have a Stewart Warner Tachometer, but it remains to be seen if it is still functional.
This is another example of lack of clarity or possibly poor design.

Permit me to explain:

The "W" and "G" Terminals on the LX301 Control Module are different sizes. The "W" Terminal is a 1/4" Male Spade Connector. The "G" Terminal is a 3/16" Male Spade Connector. IF one has to possibly swap these wires, WHY would they make the Connectors different sizes?
In the Article, the Ignition Coil shown is a Standard Blue Streak FD478X. What YOU are calling a "Ford Style Coil".
AND the FD478X doesn't have ANY Terminal References.
Am not going to be going with the Relay shown. The wiring to and from Lorrie's Run Switch is 10 Gauge and the Switch is heavy duty Mil-Spec. It should be heavy enough to handle the 12 Volts/15 Amps (that's the size Fuse that is supposed to be used).

Alright, with all that said, take a look at THIS next Wiring Diagram and see if it is correct and will suffice.



QUESTION: Can the Red Wire Be Split at the Connector that is connected to the "B" Terminal of the Control Module?

Also, while the Wire that comes FROM the Run Switch is 10 Gauge, the Red Wire on the S-539 Socket/Pigtail Assembly that goes to the Ignition Coil is only about a 16 Gauge. That seems to me to be marginal. What do YOU think?

Anyway again Reed, thanks VERY much for all the time and effort you've put in to helping me. It is genuinely appreciated.

Hope you have a WONDERMUS day.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Not a deal breaker. The first car I converted to HEI ignition had no relay, no heat sink, and grounded to the body by being screwed to the fender with ONE screw. I ran it that way for months with no problems. Run the (+) feed from the ignition straight to the coil and HEI module.

[quote=
"JCAllison"]As is stated in the HEI instruction article, the terminals for the distributor pickup leads will be determined by trial and error.[/quote]

This is another example of lack of clarity or possibly poor design.

Permit me to explain:

The "W" and "G" Terminals on the LX301 Control Module are different sizes. The "W" Terminal is a 1/4" Male Spade Connector. The "G" Terminal is a 3/16" Male Spade Connector. IF one has to possibly swap these wires, WHY would they make the Connectors different sizes?[/quote]

Because on the GM cars these HEI modules are intended to be used on, the proper connections are known and the factory plugs are wired correctly to be able to use the different size terminals. When using the HEI module in the intended application, there will never be the need to swap the wires to make sure it is wired up right. Again, the HEI swap you are performing is using parts in an application they were never intended for, so a little bit of "fudging" is necessary. Sure, it is annoying, but not a real big deal. Just use two of the larger size terminals but make sure they are insulated.
That diagram looks correct. The wire absolutely can be spliced at the crimp (or preferable solder) at the connector for the "B" terminal. 16 gauge is a tad light, but this isn't a very high amp load application.
Happy to help. Day is going pretty good so far.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.