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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:27 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
Car Model:
I have been intimidated by automotive electrical systems for long enough and I finally took the plunge and began a total wiring upgrade.

First I'll define "upgrade".
I did the HEI upgrade, ran my headlights on a relay and installed an electric fuel pump things started getting cluttered. Then I wired my '59 Plymouth Borg Warner overdrive (2 more relays) and installed gauges (boost, pyrometer, tach, vollt, temp, A/FR, oil pressure) and clutter got worse.

I relocated the battery to the trunk and installed a higher amperage mopar alternator. ( the car originally had a generator)

SSDan has said that the wiring on our older cars was "barely adequate" when it was new. I absolutely agree, so I made a wish list.

1) Enough power to run my car the way I drive it.
2) No voltage drop, dimming lights, etc.
3) No crawling under the dash to fool around with multi-pin connector shells.
4) All wire terminations to be exposed in a comfortable working position.
5) Central location as far away from the turbo as possible.
6) Easily adaptable for further mods (EFI, data logging, etc)
7) Simple
8) Good looking
9) Absolte minimum load on stock switches (ignition, headlight...)
For me to consider the project an upgrade, it would have to meet all of the above criteria.

First, I started to really think through the charging system. I thought about the fact that the car can run without a battery OR without an alternator. That means that they are separate power supplies that should be engineered as such. Example: In the event of catastrophic battery failure 100% of current flows to the grounded alternator case. Which means through the bracket. Which means through the motor to chassis ground strap. If my car will see 100 amps, All of those connections must be able to carry full current.

In the event of alternator or belt failure 100 percent of current returns to the negative battery post for as long as the car runs. But, as voltage drops, amperage rises, also, the steel chassis does not conduct electricity as well as copper wire. With my battery in the trunk, the resistance could cause a considerable voltage drop.

My fix is # 4 copper from alt to relay panel to battery for + and #4 copper engine ground bolted to firewall then run to trunk (bolted to trunk floor) then run to battery.

This and a firm resolve to keep my battery and belts in good shape, I believe, is the optimal starting/charging/storage system for my car.

Further notes: I installed a 120 amp GM alternator
I have checked into capacitors as a way to level out nuisance
voltage drops, stereo guys have pushed batteries and
alternators harder than I ever will- I can learn from them.
I will establish proper over current protection with an ammeter
based on what the car actually consumes, plus a margin.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


Last edited by KenUSA on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:47 am
Posts: 535
Location: Illinois
Car Model:
Make yourself lots of notes and diagrams before you do anything. I have been drawing diagrams and making lists of circuits all year and still rethinking how I want to do mine. I've come to the conclusion that I am going to have an underhood and a underdash fuse/relay box to handle all the loads. The ignition switch will carry no current beyond what it takes to engage one of these relays. Other than a couple maxi fuses everything will have manual reset circuit breakers. An amp clamp is you friend for this project because it lets you see how much amperage a given circuit is actually using. Good luck and let us see some pictures when you are done.

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/75551/PO ... -SPST-75A/


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 Post subject: Harness options
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:16 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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The next phase consisted of researching wiring harness kits, connector shells, stake on terminals etc.

After spending days looking at every harness option I cold find, with a price range between 175.00 and 1500.00, I figured out that a harness kit would catapult my 1960 Dart forward in time all the way to 1964. Obviously, anything can be done, but I'm not made of money.

They also are designed for driver side kick panel install, which leads me to believe that the less expensive kits not only skimp on the gauge of the wire, but possibly the length, too.

Speaking of gauge, 22 gauge is phone wire, 18 is doorbell, 16 is industrial control wiring. I can see why the factory might want to save money,weight etc. over a manufacturing run of several thousand cars, but I can't see me being happy about using 20 gauge wire for anything. Downsize a conductor a little bit and you got a resistor, a little more mad its a heater element, a little more and it's a filament, more yet and it's a fuse.

I was on the fence until I saw Cody's fuse panel idea. I'm really glad he posted pics. The caravan fuse relay panel is big enough to do all I want, it's a perfect shape to fit in my car, it has a groovy hinged bracket and its cheap.
After reading his post I decided that scratch is the way to go.

Initially, I tried to wire the panel in a manner consistent with the circuit directory on the cover. A few circuits into the car wiring proved that to be a mistake. I took it off the car, stripped it and installed 6- eight position terminal strips on the bracket. Then I soldered and wired it left to right and made sort of a generic relay/fuse panel. One terminal strip contains fused control circuit wires for ignition "run" and four fused relay outputs. The next is "accy" and three fused relay outputs. The next is "headlights" and I fused relay output as well as high beam switch wires. The fourth strip is 5 fused "batt" terminals, the fifth is all the relay coil "-" connections. The last is fused horn relay output and misc.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


Last edited by KenUSA on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Connectors
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:36 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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I found a few sources of connector shells that would work well and actually look very similar to the stock ones on the Dodge. They are vintage jap motorcycle connectors that utilize f-crimp connections. I really like f-crimps, I really don't like connector shells. The factory builds sub assemblies at different locations, then assembles the car on a line so that those shells are accessible to THEM during initial assembly. The shells make it impossible to assemble the harness incorrectly. Every time I've had to mess with one, getting at it was hard enough and separating it was even harder. At the very least I was going to make them all accessible.

I started wiring, and figured I'd make a decision about connector shells after my harness started taking shape. After pulling in a few sets of wires, I decided against connector shells altogether. Now my only decision was f-crimp or barrel crimp. I chose barrel type. They are thicker material, readily available and for all the whining I've done about them, I've never had one fail that was properly done. Since I'm using 14 Gauge conductors and larger I'm betting they will last longer than I will.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


Last edited by KenUSA on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Laying up the wire
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:52 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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Since I have no fuse box to begin with and I'm moving the firewall penetration to the passenger side, I can keep the existing wiring intact while I work.

First, I pulled 4 wires from the engine bay, through a 7/8" hole in the firewall behind the glovebox. They are for the ignition switch. Black, fused 20 amp "batt" terminal, blue ignition "run" to 4relay coils, green, "acc" to 3 relay coils and yellow "start" to starter solenoid. Need to jumper switch IGN 1 to IGN 2.
Then I pulled enough wire to comfortably reach the ignition switch location with enough to hang below the dash about 8". I bundled them together with 4" wire ties every 6".
Connect power lead from HEI upgrade to fused iGN relay output.
Connect power lead from electric fuel pump to 2nd IGN relay output

Turn key- runs

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24518
Location: North America
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Sounds like really nice work that will wind you up with a much more reliable, capable car. Capacitors can be used to smooth out ripple and hash, but not to compensate for voltage drops. Headlamp relay info here and here and here. The photos of the headlight beams on the road in both articles are very poor, but the text is very descriptive and accurate.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject: Headlights
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:27 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
Car Model:
I pulled a pair of wires through the firewall and measured them against the ignition bundle. I left them long enough to go past the ignition, over the steering column and hang half way to the floor at the headlight switch location. Black 20 amp fused battery power, yellow relay coil power.Then I wired low beams. The fused power will also feed dash and tail lights directly, via switch.

To effect high beam operation I pulled 2 conductors to foot switch. One connected to low beam relay output, the other to high beams via terminal strip. A jumper is required to operate high beam indicator in dash.

Next I added 3 accessory relay outputs and pulled them to the general area of the trans hump. At this point, all of the individual sets of wires are bundled with 4" ties every 6 inches. When I'm ready to thread them through the dash, they will be bundled together with 6" ties every foot or so.

So far, none of this work required more than a quick glance at the factory wiring diagram, but I picked the easy stuff first.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject: The scary part
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:47 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
Car Model:
The harness for the dash is comically complicated, ridiculously short and grossly over taped. Turn,stop, flasher, dash light, gauge wires, main batt power, wipers, dome, horn and all the rest are hand assembled by a madman and wedged into tiny crevices so that movement is virtually impossible.

I thought I'd be clever and cut open the bundles and carefully trace the route of each wire. For about ten minutes, that is. Once I cut it out and threw it on the garage floor, I noticed it was still writhing so I stomped it to death. Getting rid of that thing was like pulling an abscessed tooth. Absolutely no turning back now.

Time spent preparing, procrastinating, dreading this project. 52 years
Time spent so far actually doing it. Roughly 20 hours
Time spent trying to document it. Roughly 10 hours
I estimate that I'm more than half way there.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject: Re: Headlights
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:48 am 
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Quote:
I wired low beams. The fused power will also feed dash and tail lights directly, via switch.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but this reads to me as if you'll have dash and tail lights only with the headlamps, not with the parking lights (first click of the headlamp switch).
Quote:
To effect high beam operation I pulled 2 conductors to foot switch. One connected to low beam relay output, the other to high beams via terminal strip. A jumper is required to operate high beam indicator in dash.
I'm having trouble understanding why you do it this way rather than going from headlamp switch output to kickswitch input, and from kickswitch low beam output to trigger of low beam relay, and from kickswitch high beam output to trigger of high beam relay.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:33 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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Thanks for the input Dan

The light switch will work as before, I meant that the power for tail and dash is common to the power to energize headlight relay coil.

As far as dimmer switch, I never even considered using more than one relay for headlights. I just wanted the bulk of the load off the switch. If I have an unused relay at the end of the project I'll consider the 2 relay circuit.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:47 am
Posts: 535
Location: Illinois
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Not to put words in his mouth but dan is going to tell you to use 2 relays. If you only use 1 fuse and 1 relay you have no backup if something goes wrong. If the systems are seperate 1 high fuse+relay and 1 low fuse+relay when something goes wrong you can just switch to the other brightness and continue on down the road.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:23 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
Car Model:
Thanks mcnoople for the heads up. Office of Redundancy Office.
Also thanks for the CAD program idea. I found software in the APP store for 10.00, but haven't tried it yet.
Ill have to improvise a little but I think it will work well. Not so much to prepare as to create "as built" diagrams.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Location: North America
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Quote:
I never even considered using more than one relay for headlights.
It's very important that you do so. Low and high beam circuits should have separate feeds to separate relays. That way a small fault in one part of the system does not kill the entire headlight system, which could be fatal.

_________________
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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:58 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:20 am
Posts: 202
Location: Hammond In.
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You still wind up with one fused control circuit which in my case will also power tails and dash. The redundancy would certainly be better but not "far and away" better.

_________________
1960 Seneca 225 turbo soon to be EFI


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
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Location: North America
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Quote:
You still wind up with one fused control circuit which in my case will also power tails and dash.
I'm not sure what you mean, but if you do the headlamp circuit correctly, you wind up with a separate fused feed for the low beams and a separate fused feed for the high beams.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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