Now that i have figured out my choke problem and also rough running (vacuum/valve adjust) issues its time for figuring a new headache
I have a "rebuilt" from a local parts store i use to work at from a1cardone. I've read that rebuilt units could have any kind of advance #s. I'm not sure how to go about checking and setting advance on one of these seems a little different from my pertronix VW setup.
Also not sure what #s i should be looking for when i start messing with it. I thought therr was a write up on it but can't find it.

Its for a 65 2door valiant
225 .060 over
Oregon cam # 125 2.5 degrees advanced
7.8: 1 scr
I'm at 10degrees timing at the moment
18" vacuum at parking idle(if that matters)
Factory mopar electronic conversion (dist has vacuum pod)

This seems to be one of the last steps to really tuning and dialing in this motor for its full potential. After this ill need to pull motor and fix oil leak, unsure if its coming fro. Rear of pan or rear main seal

That's 10 degrees at idle...a good start.

18" at idle, not so important...what is you vacc and rpm readings at highway speed/what are they at traffic/moderate driving speeds?

-D.Idiot

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Little confused on the plotting

This is all done while in the driveway? How do i figure mechanical? I assume initial is initial timing, so in my case would be 10?

Also had a question on how accurate the timing tab is. I have a new craftsman timing light with the dial. If dial is set at 0 the timing tab shows 10 ( it will kinda bounce around to 9 or 8, is this acceptable?) But if i move dial to see when mark hits 0, dial reads 13. So I'm not 100 if I'm at 10 or 13degrees. And also I'm not 100% on why the timing would fluctuate at all. Dist is fresh with no jiggly parts..

Is the vacuum advance unplugged? If not, that will cause some movement.
Is the idle set at 750 rpm? If higher and the advance is still plugged in, it will throw off your readings because the ported vacuum line will start to show vacuum above 750 rpm.

Yes, it is all done in the drive way in about 5 minutes, if you have some writing down the numbers.

You do two passes, one pass with out the vacuum advance plugged in, then again with it plugged in. One your first pass, subtract your initial, the balance is the mechanical.

Send me your email and I will send you a better copy of my plot. The cut and paste feature shifted the columns a little.

My simple spreadsheet example is fast and easy to do and gets you in the ball park quickly. After you have mastered this then you can give "Joe's Spread sheet" a try found in the recurve section for a nice visual plot.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

My idle is set at 725-750. I get less then 1" @ ported vacuum. And i check timing with out dist plugged in.

So i check timing first without vacuum advance plugged in. Check initial timing, then rev to 1000rpm and use dial on timing light to figure timing at 1k rpm? Then so on...? And subtract my 10 initial from new readings is my advance at that specific rpm.

The best thing you can do in your situation (in my opinion ) is send your distributor to DusterIdiot as a core and have him send you one of his rebuilt and recurved "D.I. Specials".

See here: http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50090

_________________
Rob

I’m Mater
The Kentucky Poser

Exactly! you got the idea. I would rather you understand what is going on instead of just blindly making changes or handing the task off to someone else.

Like I said, you can get a rough idea of what your current set up is doing at 500 rpm increments. You can do more later at 100 rpm increments or transfer the information to Joe's Spread sheet. Once you have a baseline established, then you can start playing with different governors, springs and vacuum advances and documenting those changes. Driving the new setups will give you a feel for what the changes do.

There is no one size recurve for all cars. Recurve performance is based on car weight, engine output, gearing and driving habits.

I sent you an email with my recurve notes and pictures of springs.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Here is where I'm at right now. Unsure if this is exactly what i was suppose to do, if not let me know and ill correct it.

Mechanical advance (vacuum pod disconnected)

Rpm............... advance............... ported vacuum
725/750.......... 12....................... 1
1000............... 13-12=1.............. 16.5
1500............... 22-12=10............ 18.5
2000............... 24-12=12............ 21.5
2500............... 24-12=12............ 22
3000............... 30-12=18............ 22
Max................ 35-12=23............ 22


Vacuum advance (vacuum pod connected)

Rpm................ advance
725/750........... 12
1000................ 32-12=20
1500................ 41-12=29
2000................ 43-12=31
2500................ 46-12=34
3000................ 49-12=37
Max................. 55-12=43

That is great! Excellent!

On the second set of numbers subtract the (mechanical + initial) form the totals to see what the vacuum advance pod is adding.

Now you can see how much mechanical advance your getting with those springs and at what rpm.....

My curve is a little quicker but stops sooner. Yours is a little slower and extends longer.
1. What is your rear end ratio?
2. How tall are your normal rear tires?
3. and what are your rpms and vacuum at cruise?

Reference: On my recurve with a quicker advance I get the punch to offset the load of a 3600 pound car, 8 3/4 rear with a 2.76 ratio and Sure-Grip with 26" tall tires. Once I hit 2500 rpm (60 mph) the advance flattens out. So I am all in pretty quick which gives a snappier feel on the gas pedal.

You can also see how much the vacuum advance is adding once you correct the numbers.
1. Do you what number is stamped on the Pod arm?
2. or the number of the can?

You have my VC-208 can specs for reference.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Here are my actual vacuum advance #s

Rpm................advance
725/750..........[b0[/b]
1000................19
1500................19
2000................19
2500................22
3000................19
Max.................20

That seems a little funky or does that seem ok?

Yes, a little funky....

The vacuum equals......
1000 is 32-13 = 19
1500 is 41-22 = 19
etc.

Looks like the pod is coming in all at once...you make need to get your 3/32 allen wrench out and adjust it. Follow the instructions on Doc's #4.jpeg on recurving a distributor. How many turns out has yours been adjusted?

You could also verify the pod advance by checking it with a hand held vacuum pump and gauge. Hopefully it is not binding on the top plate then kicking in all at once.

What number is stamped on the arm?

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Unsure what # is on pod ill have to check later, also unsure on how many turns, how do you suggest figuring that out, and wherr should i set it.

As far as tire, its 25" diameter (185/75/14)
Unknown gearing, what ever came in a 65 2dr valiant with a 225.
Unknown cruise rpm and vacuum, no gauges to test in car.

Read page #4 http://www.dutra.org/doug/draft-webpage ... ibutor.htm
I would decipher your build sheet/fender tag and or look for the tag hanging off your differential.

If you want to dial your engine with a distributor recurve you need some constants....otherwise it's trial and error with no facts to base your results on.

I drive by my vacuum gauge and tach. to get best mileage.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

If all these are really 19, then you have a 9.5X pod similar to the VC-168 by standard motor products which is a good start for a points distributor build.

Here's where it goes wrong...Pull the distributor hose off the carb and cap the port. Connect the hose to a hand vaccuum pump. You need to set your idle to about 1500 and take a reading of the advance as a baseline.
Pump the hand pump up in 1" increments and record the advance at each point subtracting your baseline reading...that will show the absolute numbers of what your can is currently set at...

Looking at the data above, since the engine is not in gear with a load at about cruising speed, all vacc. pods no matter what adjustment are "all in" between 20-16" hg...so what you show at the port will give you the full vacc. advance except "off idle" (about 1000 rpm)...

You'll need to put it all back together, and find an available port at the base of the carb to stick a hose and vacc. gauge that won't goof anything else up...Time to take a drive, and find a place that is relatively flat and will allow you to drive for a few minutes at 45 mph, and 65 mph...While at these speeds note your rpm and vacc. reading...last test, go into "passing mode" and see what your reading and rpm is with kickdown/part throttle...

These numbers are more critical to figuring out how much timing you have at these crucial points (the first 2 for mileage, and the last one for power and to make sure the vacc. advance isn't 100% on causing detonation and a lack of power).

With your driveway initial+mech numbers, the pump vacc. pod numbers...and the data you just got on your drive...you should be
able to now see what your car's timing is when idling, when you are taking a trip to the grocery store, when you are taking a highway trip out of town, and when you are getting around a truck on the highway.

This should help in getting the vacc. pod adjusted properly, and in making a spring selection for getting your init+mech dialed in to allow best advance in the useable driving range.



If it all seems overwhelming think of this in two ways:

1) It may seem like a not so fun job of gathering data, but think of it as having more fun driving your car and getting to know it 'reallly well'.
2) Nothing is wasted, it may seem tedious but the information you are getting will help your car in the long run, getting a timing curve closer to your engine build's requirements will allow you to find a bit more power that you didn't think it had, and...usually that will also translate into better gas mileage...


Keep at it...

-D.Idiot