here we go, some more #'s

set idle to 1500, capped off ported vacuum, and added a hand pump to distributor.

RPM.............Vacuum............Timing
1500............0"......................21
1500............1"......................21
"..................2"......................"
"..................3"......................"
"..................4"......................"
"..................5"......................"
"..................6"......................"
"..................7"......................"
1650............8"......................22-21=1
1650............9"......................22-21=1
"..................10"...................."
1700............11"...................25-21=4
1725............12"...................29-21=8
1750............13"...................34-21=13
1775............14"...................40-21=19
1800............15"...................42-21=21

seems 15" was the max, i cranked the hand up to 30' and didnt see any change in timing or rpm.

Hoping someone will slip in and give me more direction i have free time today to get a little deeper:-)

Is the engine broken in?
if so how many miles on it?
Is it a single barrel carb? if so which one?
Automatic or stick?
Does the car feel sluggish off idle?
Is it lacking punch or snap?
Can you easily bust the tires loose?
Are you getting poor mileage?
Is it pinging?
Have you pulled the distributor apart yet?
Does the top plate move freely or does it bind?
Did you clean off all the heavy grease and lube it with synthetic oil?
If so do you know or have a picture of what springs your running?
Can you adjust the spring posts on your distributor?

What would you like it to do?
What are your goals????

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Yes its broken in
Few thousand miles
Single barrel carter bbs 60-64 version
904
Off idle is usually a small flat spot
It seems snap a bit when kickeddown
Will spin one tire off the line only if i powerbrake (preload trans, let off brake then punch gas further)
Mileage seems to be about 20ish
No pinging
Have not pulled apart dist.
Don't know about plate
Did not clean out any grease and use syn..
No pictures
No idea if i can adjust spring post

I would like it to run with good milage and be a good daily driver, power was not my concern thus the small cam

Goals are mileage and just be the ultimate grocery getter. Beable to drive to vegas or cross country if i wanted. Very reliable car, my vws are my performance cars

Good info......and good work documenting the baseline.

Let's take a look at some things that contribute to this effect. I assume fuel is good, no water beads in the carb bowl, initial timing is still at 10 degrees, there are two things to check.

1. The accelerator pump shot. With the air cleaner off and engine off, looking down the throat, pull on the throttle linkage.....do you get an immediate and healthy pump shot from the accelerator pump? If so, great! If not fix it. Please report back on it's condition. You should not have to power brake to get the tires to spin. Even with a 2.76 gears and a 8 3/4 Sure-Grip and a tired engine (284,000 miles) I can bust the both tires loose at a light on wet pavement with a 1920 Holley one barrel.

2. How to get more punch......many times on a re-manufactured distributor they use a variety of used parts. One of the problems when I first opened up my distributor was all the thick grease on the top plate causing friction plus some binding against the housing. I had to file and fit the plates to move freely and thoroughly clean all the old hardened and thick grease. I use 20-50 synthetic on the moving parts. Mine would advance but it was slow responding. The next thing is to look at the springs on the weights. Are they tight? holding the weights in, or are they floppy with the weight partially extended when spinning the shaft in your hands?
A. If you have rotatable spring post, ( A wrench will fit on the bottom of the spring post) you can rotate them outward to take the slack out out of the springs. The spring posts are on an eccentric and you can buy a little more distance to take out the slop. When the springs are weak and not adjusted the weights are floppy and when the engine is running the weights can be partially extended so you loose some of your mechanical advance and the punchy feel at the gas pedal right off idle. You don't want that....You want the weights to be pulled all the way in.
B. If the springs look like they have seen better days and have lost their tension you can re-shape the end loops. If that doesn't work, you can replace the springs with ones from a HP 340 or a HP 440 distributor or bigslantsixfan's spring kit. I like the secondary spring to have the extra long loop with a long set of coils. They made two long looped heavy springs. One with a short body and one with a long body. I use a stock medium red MOPAR spring found on a HP 340 on the primary side. You can also try a green spring from the bigslantsixfan spring kit. Spin in your hand and see how it responds.

After you get the distributor reassembled and the right springs installed, we can work on fine tuning when your vacuum pod kicks in. Some folks like 3 turns, I am running 5 turns out so it hits at a little higher vacuum point and not quite as early. It keeps mine from pinging at 5 turns. The engine stays nice a quiet and keeps the temps down. I drive over several mountain passes and it is a nice piece of mind when your working your way up over a long grade.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Pump shot is fine.
Pulled dist apart. Only # i can find on canister looks like 3755474. Plates seem to move fine but ill clean and oil with my 20/50 brad penn. Not sure if posts are adjustsble, there is only one flat spot on bottom of post so don't think a wrench would really work there, so seems non adjustable? And large spring seems spread open (coils arent tight) and floppy on post. And has L13 govener.

I also have another dist that was kinda junk, gear was broken pickup and shaft were floppy. But its in storage don't know what parts are in there, if i need a different gov or vacuum pod i could check them but don't know what shape they would be in.

What would be my next step? And is there any place to get springs locally or is this a junkyard or order deal. Here are some pics

That all looks in good shape, and that's normal for a loop style spring.
The adjusters Ted talks about are on the bottom of the shaft plate under your springs and weights...you have to drive the pin out of the gear and remove the shaft from the body to adjust them...

The part number you have is stamped on all the vacc pods for some reason (even cardone generic 10x pods...)

You'll need to get a set of springs from bigsixfan and change a spring out, L13 governor isn't my favorite (it was made for trucks in the 70's where L15 was too long, and L9 hadn't hit the market yet...it makes for a kind of 'tween' curve where you have the choice to put some early tension on the loop spring to limimt the L13 to try and be a L11 allowing you to dial in more initial advance right up front...if not you are left with something like 4BTDC for a 30 total mech+initial....

One thing to note, since the BBS is a bit smaller in stature than the Holley 1920...you may be getting a transition flat spot if the carb acc. shot is a bit lean...The worry I have at the moment, is that the Holley shares the same jets as their current carbs, and it has a few things that can be changed...the BBS may not be that forgiving and I'm not sure if you can get parts to change the fuel metering...

Just thinking out loud.

-D.Idiot

So what do i need to do? Which springs would i want for this, and will i need to adjust the posts so there is no slop on either spring? Which # gov do i want(maybe my spare dist has a better one) and is my vacuum pod fine? You have the #s i got from both hand pump and ported vacuum tests. This is only pulled apart for the day until i can get a spring kit and maybe different gov?

Run it as is until you can get the springs and check out your other distributor, set your base timing to 12BTDC. (Looks like you have 12 mech advance at 2500 + possible 21 vacc. advance for a total of 33 degrees...+ 12 base would stick it at 45 all together....highway mileage would work out best in the 48-50 total range).

If your other distributor has a shorter slot governor(9 or 11L) I would swap to that and its looped spring, and find a spring that will give you max advance just above your typical highway rpms.

-D.Idiot

Send a PM to bigslantsix fan to order the spring kit. In the pictures I sent you The colored springs are the ones he sells.

from my notes in the above posts........
"You can also try a green spring from the bigslantsixfan spring kit. Spin in your hand and see how it responds." I would start with the his green spring for best punch. You can go one lighter or several steps heavier depending on your driving style. In your light weight car I would think the green spring would be right on. Like DI mentioned you need to look under the posts to see if they are adjustable.

After testing all the types of vacuum advances I prefer the VC-208 because it's range for tuning. I like running with a total advance of 50 to 55 degrees. I have run as high as 60 degrees in the winter months with out problems. 50 to 52 is better during the hot summer months when going over mountain passes.

I am not that picky on the governor as long as it has the adjustable spring posts. Doc turned me on to the long body, long looped 383-440 springs. With my 15L governor that spring won't let it get near the ends of the slots. It provides a nice hard stop.....You have the short body medium long looped version spring on yours.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

What would be the correct way to adjust those posts? Should they be adjusted so the slack is just taken out of the two springs? Or should there be some sort of slop in any of the springs?

And i already have sent a pm for the spring kit. Still waiting for reply. Is the green spring a primary or secondary, should i be swapping out both with parts in the kit? I really appreciate all the help.everyone has been given me

No slop.....If there is any slack you loose mechanical advance and the initial snappy response. You want to take out the slop and maybe even tighten the spring to keep the weights in. Depends on the condition of the spring. I run mine at max extension to keep it tight and the weights in.

That will help your current distributor and provide better of idle response.
Primary only......keep your heavy secondary spring.

Too bad the links are broken on the recurve section to see what my plot looks like. Send me a PM if you want a copy. I think I know where to dig it up along with Joe's spread sheet so you can plot your own before and after curves. I like the visual plots.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Di said it sounds like i have a 9.5x which is a "good start for points"(i have electronic setup) i just checked how many turns and it is set at 3 1/4 turns out. Does this help decipher what pod i have? Will it work for what I'm doing or would i really want to hunt down a different #?

Your pod will give you 20 degrees of vacuum advance as you confirmed in your plotting. It should be fine. Glad you can adjust it for fine tuning later on..... Yes, it will work. You plotted that you can hot 55 degrees advance above 3000 rpm.

I have my VC208 set up to provide 25 degrees vacuum advance.

The next question is, do you actually cruise at that rpm? This is where knowing what your rear end ratio becomes important so you can recurve the distributor to match your cruise. You don't want to tune for 3.5 rear end when you may be running a 2.76.

I have my distributor tuned for a 2.76 rear end, 26" tall tires, 2,500 rpm at 60 mph.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

So i tore into my spare distributors. I had a points and an electronic. Electronic has a 110r on the arm of vacuum pod. Has an 15L govenor, and two small springs on the weights.

Points not sure if much is interchangable, but arm on vac pod is 10. R11.5 govenor. And one small and one fairly thick lookin spring.

Do i want any of these parts for my recurve build?

Also spun tire one rev, and driveshaft spun about 1.5 times.
10Spins of tire = about 14.5 of driveshaft. So that's about 2.9?

Electronic pod


Electonic 15L gov and springs



Points R11.5 gov and springs