Hey Mr. SS,
Am sitting here thinking about this. Please don't take this discussion as being argumentative. It is not meant to be.

Am not a Hydraulic Expert by any means, but I worked for a Marine Crane Manufacturer as a Public Relations Directo/TV Producer from 1981 to 1987. One of my jobs was to make animations of the workings of the Hydraulic System of the SeaKing Marine Crane which is used on Offshore Drilling Rigs. In order to do the animation, I had to learn a bit about Hydraulic Systems. With that said, let's consider the Slant Six Oil Pump and Lubrication System. One of the things that was stressed by those who were educating me so that I could be accurate with the animation was that an Oil Pump doesn't put out "pressure". It puts out "flow". It is resistance to that "flow" that produces "pressure".

What you said in the quote above indicates that what we are calling the "Oil Pressure Relief Valve" isn't REALLY an "Oil Pressure Relief Valve"!

If it functions as you have stated, it would properly be called an "Oil Pressure Regulator Valve".

BUT, from looking at the actual piece of equipment (the OLD Oil Pump), it DOES appear to be a "Oil Pressure Relief Valve", which means that as the pressure in the Engine's Lubrication System rises that the Valve's Shuttle (Piston) pushes against the Spring. The tension of the Spring resists this push, thus maintaining a "certain" predetermined (by the Spring's tension) amount of Oil pressure. If for any reason, the Oil pressure should continue to rise, the Shuttle would overcome the Spring tension permitting the Oil pressure to be "vented".

Putting a "shim" between the Spring and the Valve's Hex Plug would be tantamount to installing a higher tension Spring which would function to retard the opening of the Valve under pressure thus venting the Lubrication System at a HIGHER Oil Pressure.

Can't for the life of me see how that would increase LOW Oil Pressure.
Right. BUT it IS a progressive venting Valve which functions to keep from over-pressuring the Lubrication System.
Hmmmm. This statement indicates that the Valve is a Pressure Regulator.

Wouldn't the Valve be totally closed at idle to maintain a minimum amount of Oil Pressure?

And wouldn't the Valve, as the RPM increases, tend to STAY closed to permit the Oil Pump to develop MORE Oil Pressure to compensate for the increased need of the Bearings (and etc.) as the Engine Speed increases?

And as the Engine Speed continues to increase, the Oil Pump puts out MORE Flow, and at some point, the MAXIMUM amount of flow that the Engine's Lubricating System can tolerate would be reached. At THAT point the Valve would start to open to maintain whatever MAXIMUM allowable Oil Flow the Spring's tension would allow.

Up to the point at which the Spring's tension begins to be overcome, the Valve would be closed to maintain Oil Pressure. The tension of the Spring thus regulates the MAXIMUM Oil Pressure of the Engine, not the MINIMUM Oil Pressure of the Engine.

BUT I can see that by increasing the Spring's tension either by shimming or by installing a stronger Spring that the Oil Pressure in the Engine's Lubricating System would be maintained "longer" before venting. Still this would NOT increase the MINIMUM amount of Oil Pressure at low RPMs.
Which indicates that an Engine such as the Slant Six is pretty tolerant when it come to Oil Pressure.
Am somewhat surprised at this. BUT I like it! This pretty much means that the Slant Six isn't VERY touchy about how much lubrication it gets. It also means that if it gets 55 PSI (the manufacturer's specified PSI) that it would be VERY happy indeed.
This is postulating that it is the Relief Valve that is regulating the Oil Pressure and not the Bearing Tolerances.
And Reed. Don't forget Reed. And I couldn't fail to disagree with you less! They've all been VERY helpful when it comes to Lorrie's problems.
Are you sure I understand what you just wrote? I can see that the Valve Cover SHOULD get hot. I just never noticed it before yesterday when I was checking everything for temperature. The Oil Pan was HOT. The Frantz canister was HOT. And the Valve Cover was HOT. You know what REALLY gets hot? The Weight on the Heat Riser under the Carburetor! Touched that puppy once upon a time while the Engine was running. Will NEVER do THAT again!
You know what? Maybe someday will just to see what happens, might reinstall the OLD Oil Pump and see what it puts out. And then mess with the Relief Valve by shimming it just to see what it ACTUALLY does. It would be a GREAT bit of education.
Right. Have to say though, that prior to the drop in Oil Pressure, the OLD Oil Pressure Gauge never had the problem of sticking at 28 PSI and never needed tapping to get it to go up to 40 PSI, and was always used to running at 55 PSI.

The lowering of the Oil Pressure seems to have been a combination of a bunch of things: The violent shaking caused by the Rear U-Joint Failure; The Carbon sediment in the Oil Pan being softened and brought back into suspension in the Oil; The age of the OLD Oil Pump; And who knows what OTHER factors may have contributed. The fortunate thing about all this is that there was (hopefully) no permanent damage done to the Engine.
Couple that with the way that Lorrie is driven (VERY gently), and we're hopefully looking at a VERY long lived Engine.
Another thing that makes reading the Oil Level difficult is that the NEW Oil is perfectly clear and can only be seen as a "gloss" on the Dip Stick.
The Dip Stick and the Dip Stick Tube are the ones that were on the Engine when Lorrie came to live with me.

Something that has been noticed since the Oil Pressure drop started is that after the Engine has been running, that if the Dip Stick is pulled, there is Oil about half way up the Dip Stick. It's as if the Oil is being forced UP the Dip Stick Tube. Did a search on this condition and got a suggestion that it may be caused by a clogged Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) Valve. Checked THAT, and it is not clogged or stuck.
The Dip Stick DOES go into the Dip Stick Tube easily, though right where the Dip Stick Tube fits into the Hole in the Block's Oil Pan Gasket Flange, there is an indentation that is NOT accidental. It has been put into the Dip Stick Tube on purpose, but I have no idea why.

Anyway, weather here is supposed to get down to 25 degrees F. Am going to go out as soon as it gets light enough to be out and see if Lorrie will start without Start Fluid at this temperature. Prior to having the Starter rebuilt, she wouldn't start at this temperature without Start Fluid.

Also, Lorrie has a strange little quirk that if she hasn't started in three or four days that all the fuel either evaporates from the Carburetor Float Bowl and the Fuel in the Fuel Filter runs back down into the Fuel Pump. It takes a bit of Start Fluid to get her to run long enough for the Fuel Pump to supply the Filter and Float Bowl with gasoline. Have thought of putting a check valve between the Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter. But don't know what to do about the fuel evaporating out of the Float Bowl.

Anyway Mr. SS, thanks for taking the time to respond. It is VERY much appreciated.

Hopefully, we'll eventually get Lorrie to where I won't be apprehensive about just getting in her and going without worrying that she is going to have something go amiss with her. Am thinking about having my Auto Insurance Agent add towing to Lorrie's policy. That would take some of the trepidations out of the situation.

I'll hang in here if YOU'LL hang in there.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Relief or regulating valve,well its all names really....in aviation circles its called an oil pressure relief valve,as in automotive circles from what ive seen. I assume it is because it blows off for want of a better word to maintain pressure and dumps excess oil into the sump. It's a regular adjustment to adjust the spring tension on newly rebuilt aircraft engines to bring them into the required specifications,some use simple 1/4 washers under the spring,some use adjustment screws.. The setup works the same way as an automotive engine. IF the engine has poor clearances or worn pumps,yes there is no way to adjust for that,the valve is fully closed and what you see on the gage is all you are going to get,but as rpm increases then pump output increases and the relief valve opens to regulate the set pressure. The fact that your engine had the same pressure at idle as at driving rpm would indicate that it was operating very well and capable of adjustment. If you shimmed up the spring there is no doubt you could increase the oil pressure,but you don't need to,40 psi is ample,but if you wanted to,it would be possible.
The fuel evaporating out of the carb is a common hassle,I have the same issues with the open vent style carter carbs. Putting a non return valve in the line is pointless,the fuel pump has a set of one way valves in there already. I have noticed fuel quality effects how long before the carb dries out,perhaps varying blends of fuels for winter/summer also have an effect. If you can,mount the filter higher than the carb inlet,it doesn't fix the problem,but the filter acts as a reservoir of fuel to then gravity feed into the carb as fuel evaporates,it gives you a few more days before it dries out. I'm sure a later carb with the closed vent systems and charcoal canisters may help,as would an electric pump. I really don't know much about the later closed system type carbs,never used them,all my daily cars are efi or on propane,only my folks restored Valiant has a 2bbl carter with this issue and my Futura with Holley 700 4 bbl ( its going to EFI) ,but they both last about 2 weeks before they take a bit of cranking to fill the carbs again. Strangely enough,my old slant wagon that is going to get restored eventually has a 1bbl carter on it and doesn't suffer so badly,I think they have a slightly larger volume of fuel in the float chamber perhaps?

carefull if shimming pressure spring....I have blown oil filters apart

Hey Mr. SS,
Knowing how this stuff works is a plus, but just knowing that it IS working is a joy!
It IS technically an Oil Pressure Relief Valve.
Yes.
From some research on the subject, there are (or have been) different colored Springs with the color being an indication of the tension of the Spring. The comment that was found with THAT information also said that one couldn't rely on the various colored Springs having the advertised tension and that the best way to get the desired Oil Pressure was to shim and to do it multiple times (trial and error) till one got the results one wanted.
This is one of those "half-full/half-empty" things depending on how one looks at it. The Valve can be said that it closes to keep the Oil Pressure UP, or it can be said that it opens to keep the Oil Pressure DOWN.

If someone could just invent an Oil Pump that put out the SAME pressure all the time no matter how fast the Engine was going, that would maintain the SAME Oil Pressure in the lubricating system at all RPMs. Like an Electric Fuel Pump. OR a "high-output" Oil Pump with a Pressure Regulator Valve. The Hydraulic Pumps on the SeaKing Marine Crane were Gear Pumps. Two meshing Gears in a case, with one of the Gears being driven. The Hydraulic Fluid would get in between the teeth on the sides opposite where the Gears meshed together and that was how the flow was generated. And the technique to regulate the pressure was not done by Engine Speed. When lifting, the Engine was at maximum RPMs and the Flow was regulated by the Valves controlled by the Crane Operator. If he tried to lift more than the Crane could heft, the pressure would just vent back to the reservoir and the load wouldn't move.
Am not going to mess with the Pressure Valve. It is working fine. And isn't its main job to protect the Gears on the Cam Shaft and the Oil Pump Drive more than anything?
Lorrie has a Bendix Stromberg Model W Single Venturi Carburetor. It has an "open vent" on it.
It seems to me that the Fuel Filter empties back into the Fuel Pump though.
Still, it works alright just the way it is. Just takes a bit of cranking OR a shot of Start Fluid.
Probably.
Lorrie's Bendix Stromberg goes dry in three or four days depending on the weather.
Can see how THAT would be advantageous.

Well, it is 28 degrees here this morning, and I just went out to see if Lorrie would start in this cold a weather. There are sheets of ice on Lorrie's windshield. There is a thin layer of snow on the Bumpers. Got in, turned on the Run Switch. Activated the Start Switch, and without any Start Fluid, Lorrie started right up!

This is the FIRST TIME since October of 2012 (when she finally got to be up and running) that she has done THAT. Am so proud of her.

She is become more reliable as time progresses and as work is done on her.

She will be taking me to the Livingston Medical Center next Thursday for blood tests. Am thinking (and hoping) that everything will be just fine.

Will just have to wait and see.
What will be will be.
Time will tell.
Be well.
JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. H,
Am not going to be doing any shimming.
YOW! How much Oil Pressure would it take to do THAT?

Have a couple of comments to make here:

Have figured out how to find out how much Oil there is in Lorrie's Oil Pan. Since when the Dip Stick is pulled out of the Dip Stick Tube, the Oil somehow gets either wiped off, or it doesn't stick to the Dip Stick. Am going to leave the Dip Stick in the Dip Stick Tube, will pull them BOTH out of the hole in the Block's Oil Pan Gasket Flange. The Oil should be on the part of the Dip Stick that is sticking out of the bottom of the Dip Stick Tube!

Another bit of a problem with reading the Dip Stick when NEW Oil has just been put in is that it is so clear that it can't be seen on the Dip Stick. One has to look for the GLOSS of the Oil as opposed to the non-glossy metal of the Dip Stick. Is there some kind of harmless "dye" that could be put into the Oil so that it would have some color to it making it visible?

Anyway, it is REALLY cold here right now. The wind is blowing out of the North about 15 MPH and the temperature is at 28 degrees. The Wind Chill Factor says it "feels like" 13 degrees! It's supposed to be like this through tomorrow night. Then Thursday it's supposed to be in the upper 50s during the day.

Stay comfortable.

JC.

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Run some royal purple in it.... Its purple lol

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"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech

Hey Mr. OSR,
Did a DuckDuckGo (that's an anonymous search engine) Search and found double strength Oil Dye!

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1& ... Aoil%20dye

It's not made for being able to see the NEW Oil on the Dip Stick, but it comes in various fluorescent colors that glow under UV (ultraviolet) light. It's made for hard-to-find leaks. Some is made to go into the Engine. Some is for Transmissions. Some is for Air Conditioners. Apparently one puts a bottle of this stuff into whatever system is leaking and then one looks for the leak in the dark with a Black Light. The leak will GLOW! Guess you could check the Dip Stick with a Black Light too!

Another one of my ideas stolen before I could get around to thinking about it!

About putting Royal Purple into the Valvoline: Don't like to mix oils. Have heard that some of the additives in the various brands are not compatible.

Anyway, am just going to wait till the NEW Oil darkens a bit. Then it will be visible.

BTW, there are no Oil leaks under Lorrie after twenty-four hours of having Oil in the Oil Pan. Looks as though Aggressive Ted's recommendation of Permatex Ultra-Black Gasket Maker was a good one.

Stay warm.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Glad to hear you got it all fixed JC! Stay indoors and have a nice mug of hot cocoa to celebrate.

Hey Reed,
Oh, ME TOO.
Oh, don't I wish. I don't eat anything that has any amount of sugar in it. Don't eat anything with any amount of salt either. Eating for me is not only bland, but it's done ONLY because it has to be done. Don't recall the last time I ate for entertainment!

Got your instructions too late!

Have just spent the last hour and a half reinstalling Lorrie's Floor Board, Master Cylinder Inspection Hatch and the four piece Engine Cabinetry. Put the Air Cleaner on Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine. Started her up. She starts instantaneously even when in the mid 20 degree temperature. Goes right to a 550 RPM idle, and sitting in Park warming up, she is putting up 40 PSI Oil Pressure. Let her warm up till the Temperature Gauge was at about 115 degrees, then put her in Reverse. She maintained 40 PSI. Took her out for a short drive. She has never been smoother. Oil Pressure at 30 MPH is just a tad below 50 PSI. Drove her around for a bit, and came back home. Pulled into the drive way and put the Transmission into Park and the Oil Pressure went up to about 52 PSI. She idles smoothly, accelerates smartly Will go 60 MPH without breaking a sweat. For what more could an old codger like me ask? You know, I'll be 75 years old on Thursday, January 30. I'm a 1939 model.

Anyway, had a bright idea. Was going to have Lorrie take me to Livingston on Thursday. BUT, there is a new "family clinic" just opened here in Onalaska, Texas. Am going to go tomorrow and see if they can do blood tests. I have a script for the tests that need to be done so that the MDeities in Houston and I will have something to talk about on February 6, 2014 at 10:30 a.m. If they can, that will save Lorrie and me a trip to Livingston (30 miles round trip). The very nice lady that cuts my hair lets me borrow her Toyota to drive into Houston twice a year. That's 200 miles round trip.

Anyway, am hoping that Lorrie is not going to pull another stinker on me.

Am just so proud of the way she is starting up now. At any temperature, just a touch of the Start Switch and she fairly leaps to life!

She hasn't done that since she was resurrected in October of 2012.

No more having to give her Start Fluid. No more having to hook up the Battery Charger an hour before starting. Just walk out, get in, turn on the Run Switch and activate the Start Switch and "Vrooooom"!

Think I'm going to go have an apple and some milk.

Hope YOU are comfortable.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

You should be proud. I am doing tolerably well and can't really complain about anything. Another slanted victory!

Happy Birthday JC ...good to hear lorrie running right
Ps hot coco dont have sugar or salt

When I check oil that is so clear I cant see it I just place the dipstick on a paper towel and see where it stains the paper. Its an old marine engineering trick used when dipping diesel tanks. Im told the helicopter guys use it for dipping JetB.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

Hey Reed,
I do feel a certain amount of accomplishment. Am more surprised that none of what happened got me down in the dumps. There was just this feeling of determination. Of not going to let this beat me. But then again, I really had no choice in the matter. It HAD to be done. And I was the only one that was going to do it.
Same here. Am getting a bit more rested. Got so fatigued that I couldn't rest or sleep well. Found myself being awakened by aches and pains from all the exertion.
And complaining doesn't do anything anyway.
Go TEAM!

Looking back on yesterday's test drive... Reed, Lorrie has never been smoother! Am still feeling some amount of anticipatory angst due to Lorrie's tendency to spring unexpected stuff on me. It's a "waiting for the other shoe to drop" kind of feeling. BUT, one must just ramp up the courage and proceed with whatever with the attitude: "We'll deal with whatever happens."

It was uncomfortably cold here this morning. "Bitter" is the appropriate word. It's supposed to get up into the high 40s today and before the week is out, it's supposed to be approaching 70! Apparently we got just the Western edge of the frigid air here.

Am going to be getting out around noon today. Will have an update on how THAT goes later this afternoon.

Stay comfy.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. H,
Thanks. Am hoping it will be. To be candid, I don't feel like I've been around the sun seventy-five times. Am no older in my head than I have ever been. It seems that it's more the physical body that takes the brunt of the aging. It has aches and pains. Changes in the way it functions. Diminished abilities. New feelings that cause concern. Susceptible to all kinds of stuff that didn't used to be worrisome. I can remember when getting up off the couch was nothing. Now if it isn't done carefully something can hurt or actually be injured. But all in all, like Reed, I can't complain. There's no one here to commiserate. I tell the cats when I don't feel very good. They don't seem to understand, nor do they give a damn. In fact when I'm feeling really bad and am spending a lot of time under the covers, they seem to really like that. They all come up and spend time with me. The purring gets ferocious!
Hopefully she will stay that way for a LONG time now.
It doesn't? What makes it sweet then? Chocolate is actually quite bitter. I used to put "Swiss Miss" in coffee. Also used "Quick" occasionally.

When I was in my thirties, I used to make coffee using Yuban brewed coffee, poured into a LARGE cup with a spoon full of instant coffee in it. To that was added: Rum flavoring, Swiss Miss chocolate, half a jigger of Kahlua (coffee liquor), half a jigger of Bailey's Irish Cream, an ounce or so of whipping cream and a teaspoon of raw sugar. It was called "Coffee d'Vita". Had quite a kick! Where I lived there was a Jacuzzi. I'd have it going, and would have Coffee d'Vita and a double Carnation Instant Breakfast. That was how I would start my days. Made a guy as strong as a dozen camels in a courtyard!

Anyway, am going to have to get ready to get out and about.

Will have an afternoon update.

Take care.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. SIBC,
What a GREAT IDEA! Will definitively give THAT a try.
I didn't think that I was ever the first one to have this kind of problem.
Well, it IS a GREAT way of making sure. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the tip!

Hope you are staying warm if it's cold where you are.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor