Hey all its me again. Its been a while and as most of you know I've had a hell of a time getting my super six running right. I've dealt with it and have quietly been reading and trying everything I can and I think (havnt opened the cover yet) but I'm left with the chain. I can get it to start and idle fine still but still has bad hesitation on acceleration. I do see a little movement on the timing mark at idle, maybe 2-3 degrees but still a smooth idle. I can also grab the fan and rock it and the crank pulley back and forth and see the same 2-3 degrees on the timing tab.

Now Im gonna replace it, but can this really be enough to cause all the trouble I've had with this? And is there any particular brand I should avoid when it comes to chain sets? I'm looking at a cloyes, melling, or comp. All available through my work, any thoughts or suggestions while I'm in there?

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech

Where you will see it, is to do this with the distributor cap off, and rocking it back and forth 6-10 degrees on the timing mark, and seeing how much delay there is after the "change" of direction before the rotor starts to move...

Stock silent chains are almost all the same, few are offered with the full cam gear, the last Cloyes and Melling units I got both had a long slot machined in the gear where the cam stud goes, not allowing someone the opportunity to drill it for a bushing if desired (a smart guy could just locate and drill a new hole on the gear in another location if they had some layout tools and a scribe.

Double Roller chains are a little more expensive, but are nice peices and quality. The cloyes setup is a good one to use and is very similar in nature to the old mopar performance pieces offered before being discontinued. The Rollmaster set is a bit more expensive, but is a top of the line design with added crank keyways if you desire to change the timing on that gear...the rub here, is that some of these have very tight tolerances and may need to have the crank gear massaged to get it to fit better (mine needed a gear puller to get it off the crank snout after I subjected it to 10 minutes of using a torch to try and make a timing change).

2 cents,

-D.Idiot

I use the Cloyes double set. Not that the single is bad, but I hear so many stories of timing chain slop, jump timing, etc...I just go straight to double timing chain.

That Rollmaster set looks really nice though....billet steel, extra keyways


brian

but can this really be enough to cause all the trouble I've had with this? No unless cam is very retarded or installed wrong to begin with. Almost 30 years ago i woked at a taxi fleet. they ran 318s and slants all with bbd carbs.If the carb is set up right slants will run good with worn chains.

Stumble, sags and hesitation are caused by late power enrichment in the carb.Found documents and notes from the old days. There were Technical service bulletins to improve vehicle driveability.For example bulletin No. 14-11-77 Date April 4,1977 A redesigned accelerator pump spring [purple] has been released for the 225cid and 318cid engines equipped with a carter 2BBL carburetor. This new pump spring will provide improved pump operation and minimise light acceleration hesitations and sags. Part No 3481313. These springs did help. The carter no was 61-451.

Heres another TSB for 318s . For surge and acceleration sags . Service kit consisting of Metering rods{richer} Step-up spring {longer and stiffer} Venturi screws{affects idle and off idle circuit} Kits made a big difference. On the 318s this was a common problem. The main thing was that stiffer spring.Rather than pay dealer prices for kits most shops just got a spring kit for the carter AFB. Just use a slightly stiffer spring than original.Worked fine most carbs did not need metering rods or venturi screws

Slant six BBds changed over time.1977 one carb for auto one carb for sticks. Only difference was metering rod.1978 one carb for sticks 2 carbs for autos. Sedan wieght class 3500# got 8137s ,Wagons wieght class 4000# got 8177s. The difference was the vacuum piston step-up spring. Sedans got carter p/n 61-226, wagons got p/n 61-205. 61-205 is longer and much stiffer than 61-226.

Wow that's all good to know! I've tried all kinds of stuff with the carb but havnt swapped springs or anything. It is a reman, the old one I replaced was too and of course neither had a tag on it. Would a spring kit for a modern edelbrock work? I know essentially they're the same carb as the old AFBs.

I do see about 6* of crank movement before I see the rotor move in the dizzy.. Its a low mile slant rebuild, bone stock internally as far as I know (bought it built), in a 78 Volare wagon. A904, stock gears wich I assume are in the 2.7-2.9 range. Converted to HEI, Accel 8mm wires, Ford coil, NGK UR5 plugs @ .045 gap. Timings at 11-12* initial, mixture screws 4 turns out and curb speed screw about 1 turn in. Accel pump is @ 1/2", floats @ 1/4". Free flow muffler and 2 1/4" exhaust. Factory super six with a Carter BBD, wich I did verify its a 6 cyl carb.

I did notice the step-up spring has been "made to fit" I'm assuming by the reman company, the float baffle is missing and the wire spring around the top of the step-up that stabilizes the metering rods.

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech

1979 runing production changes 9 different carbs all for slants. Carbs no 8199,8242 for wagons 4000# used v8 vacuum piston assembly p/n 160-337s and v8 metering rod arm p/n 111-118. These 2 carbs were back to the soft spring p/n 61-226. Another carb 8245 used v8 metering rod arm with the normal slant vacuum piston p/n 160-341s and the stiff sprig p/n 61-205. I saved 8242 and 8245 from the old days because they where good runing carbs. Looking at sedan and wagon carbs side by side you can really see the difference in the movement of the metering rod.There is plenty of room for the spring to push the rod higher when the vacuum drops under load.Works the other way too. Under high vacuum looks like the piston would be pulled down further.

edelbrock springs yes they fit just fine. Here is 61-226 on this page http://quadrajetparts.com/carter-carbur ... 2_382.html i got spare baffle and spring ill send . What are the numbers on your metering rods.

BBD metering rod chart http://postimg.org/image/7fs0suwhj/

Thanks for those links! The numbers are 2216 on the rods, I haven't pulled the jets to look at those numbers yet. Thank you again, you have provided me with more answers in this one thread than I've been able to get in the last couple years being on the forums.

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech

2216 for 1978 manual tranny {about 15 down on that chart} 2228 for auto.{7 down on chart} wrong one . Does it cruise ok with that one. 2221 {12 on chart} Bigger tapper between lean and rich. More flexability for tuning. What numbers on the venturi screws?

It does cruise pretty good once its going. Idle and anything above about 1/2 throttle feels pretty good, anything else it has a pretty bad rough spot under acceleration Ill have to pull the venturi screws out and loom at them. I have to go pick up my spring kit for it and Ill take a look later today at the jets and venturi screws.

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech

On the accel pump, I noticed some BBDs have a clip on them that holds the spring on, and I've seen some that the spring rests against the bowl cover. Is there a right way or wrong way here and how would I know with my particular carb? The clips not on it now, but I do have a couple spares from old rebuild kits.

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech