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 Post subject: Head Gasket woes
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:17 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:04 am
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Location: Oakland CA
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Hey gang! I did a pretty thorough search by using the search function and didn't find exactly the info I was after. Maybe I'm just looking for moral support on this one.
The back story:
I have a 66 dart wagon with a 71 225 engine. One of the sparkplug holes had been nearly stripped for a while and finally it just wouldn't stay put in that one "snug but not tight" position. Well, that's ok. It was time to use a perma-coil. that was a bust. Ended up janking up 3 thread spring inserts trying to get one in and each time the little end of course would break off and end up in the cylinder, I have little confidence that the compressed air removed it, as was recommended. So I was pretty sure the little bits of shrapnel were still in there poised to claw up the cylinder walls.
I found a head that was supposed to be in good shape in trade for one crisp 20 dollar bill. I had wanted to mill my head to raise compression anyhow. ok, new head it is. I had the new head magnaflux tested and had the head milled .025.
Here's where the story starts:
I cleaned and inspected the block surface to the best of my ability using the info I found in the boards, online vids and service manual. I used a Fel-pro Head gasket, ARP head-bolts. I went by the recommendations that came with the bolts and in 3 equal courses I tightened up the bolts to 80 pounds with a needle torque wrench.
I found a little coolant was dribbling from the head block junction. I searched the forums and found I should go through a heat cycle and retorque. I did. It still leaked but now only from the driver side near the fire wall. Ok, It's dark now, lets try again in a couple days. I did. The leak is still there. It looks like the leak is coming from the intake/exhaust bolt hole nearest the firewall. But of course it could just be gathering and dripping from there, can't tell.
So that leads me to the conclusion that:
-The block surface was not actually flat/clean enough
-By going with the ARP recommendation of 80 lbs rather than the 65 speced by the manual I twisted something odikempo
-I busted through a water jacket at the end of the in/ex bolt hole.
The question:
Any recommendations/suggestions before I tear it all down again in assumption that it's the block surface?
The embarrassing part that really chaps my keister is the gasket didn't leak before I "fixed" it.
Thanks y'all in advance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:02 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:23 am
Posts: 1341
Location: N. Ga.
Car Model: 64 Valiant
Many times blocks and heads distort after they are removed from one another. It has nothing to do with how good it ran before you did this, its just the metal relaxing from the stresses it was enduring. So, while the head was resurfaced, the block was not, and that is where the problem is occurring. It has nothing to do with the added torque required from the aftermarket bolts either. Never follow a factory manual when using aftermarket parts. The guidelines given in those manuals are only for using stock equipment OEM quality parts that came on these engines originally, and cannot be followed when using aftermarket parts of better grades and quality because Chrysler did not engineer them. And only ARP's or other parts manufacturers methods and guidelines can be used successfully for their parts as well. You may need to resurface the block to correct the issue.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
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Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
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Quote:
It looks like the leak is coming from the intake/exhaust bolt hole nearest the firewall.
Pull that intake/exhaust stud and put some teflon tape or sealer on it. They do go into the water jacket. That would be easier than pulling the head / engine to make those repairs.

Rick

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:29 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:23 am
Posts: 1341
Location: N. Ga.
Car Model: 64 Valiant
Ok, I see you said its actually leaking from the bolt hole and not from the area around it. Just put some thread sealer on the stud as Rick suggested and it will save you a lot of work.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:53 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:04 am
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Location: Oakland CA
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Thanks guys. I'll try it on monday.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:58 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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I'm patting myself on the back for partially daring the radiator. Because when I got the manifolds off and removed the studs a bunch of coolant gurgled of several stud holes. I'm letting it dry overnight then I'll use some sealant. I'm crossing my fingers I found the problem not just a problem. Thanks for the help!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 1:04 pm
Posts: 7426
Location: Oregon
Car Model: 2023 Eichman Digger?
While you have the sealant out you may want to address the front bolt that holds the alternator bracket to the block. (Not the head.)

The front bolt for the alternator bracket goes into the area above the lifters. While this isn't pressurized oil, if this bolt isn't properly sealed, you can have an oil leak there.

:D

CJ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:53 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:48 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Pr Ed County Ontario Canada
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First, I don't use ARP anything. Quailty just isn't there. Nice stickers though so run the stock bolts and buy a sticker assortment if you like.
I also do not use different torque specs .
On the slant six I use OEM style steel gaskets.
And remember I race this car. My rules are the same for hot street slant sixes of which I have done a few.
Now the manifold wet holes. Use studs. Install them using Copper plus by permatex. Not the white crap or the red stuff or the blue or grey but copper plus. And if for some reason you must use bolts IE as in my tunnelram header deal stii seal it with the same stuff.
now fifteen people are going to suggest the white pipe sealer and various other alternatives so I will tell you right now what I tell them here when they don't use the good stuff because uncle Freddy or the guy at the parts counter said this or that would work better and then come to me whinning.
And it happens regularly BTW. "I am happy for you. I have told you how to cure it and you wouldn't listen. Nothing more to say."
don

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:55 am 
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Supercharged

Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:53 pm
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Location: Gaithersburg MD
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If I were a betting man, I would bet the leak is all those manifold studs and not the head. As Rick says, check the alternator bracket stud as well. 99.9% sure it will work fine once you get those studs sealed up. I like paste sealant better than tape, but tape will work.

Sam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:39 am
Posts: 519
Location: Australia
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The copper plus is good gear, used on turbo air cooled engines with great results.... I also like the steel shim gasket on factory manifolds, it allows movement as the factory designed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:39 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:04 am
Posts: 28
Location: Oakland CA
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Thanks for all the great advice. The leak was indeed coming from the stud holes. I used permatex thread sealer. I would have followed the recommendation above but I followed the advice of another thread before a reply with a product name came in. It appears I will have the chance to use plenty of different products before I stop wrenching on a slant six.
So the end of the story is a happy one. I'm piloting a strong slant six again instead of an anemic slant 5.
Next on the list is mounting the updated master cylinder (yeah... I know, should have done it by now) and figuring out that pesky intermittent electrical problem that makes my gas gauge read empty and my temp read crazy hot, then works fine, then doesn't. Oh and polishing my welding skills so I can take care of the disappearing floorpans.
Well, it's what I signed up for and well worth the effort. Thanks again everybody.

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