DI,
I searched for your method of cc'ing but could only find what you used ,so if you could would please repost your method.
I already have a 60 cc syringe, plexiglass,food colering and a cylinder head setting on the kitchen tabel(OH YEAH.....THE WIFES HAPPY ABOUT THAT).
If you could run through it one more time ,I sure would appreciate it.Also what kind of fluid do you use?.
Thanks
HyperValiant

_________________
1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

'Just tell her you're trying to get more Iron in your diet...'

I just showed this to boardmember 66Dart a few weekends ago and the machine shop confirmed that we were dead on for chamber CC....

I think we cut the plexiglass/lexan at 6" x 6" to cover the chamber and then some. I mock it up to make sure the plastic has about 1" around the chamber. I then take and drill a hole (or a pair, one for inlet and one to expel air out of the chamber...) that's about 1/8"-3/16" near the top of the chamber (usually when upsidedown the head will have some tilt to it, which is good as the liquid will run to the bottom via gravity...).

When ready to measure, grab a cup of water and add some blue (or what ever color, darker is better under the shop lights) food coloring to the water (it's not romulan ale so don't drink it....). If it's a brand new head: I smear a dab of grease around the milled surface outside of the chamber (this will be the 'gasket' to seal the plastic to the head, apply a light amount, and keep it close to the chamber wall, not in the chamber), and put a little around the valves (if you are measuring up a core and the sets are shot or the valves are in bad shape this will keep the chamber liquid tight, if new it will protect the metal from rusting), if it's new head you can also lightly spray some WD-40 on the chamber walls to coat/protect it from rust since we are using water....

When that is done, apply plexiglass/plastic and make sure your hole(s) are at the top of the chamber and not in the 'greasy' O sealing it.
If you used clear plastic press on the plastic to make sure you have a nice sealed 'ring of grease' with no bubbles or breaks (not a good time to have a leak...).

Fill syringe to 60 CC typical chambers are 53-54 CC's so if doing a stock head 'sloowly' fill the chamber (I usually take about 90 seconds to fill the chamber trying to make sure I haven't spilled any liquid...)....When the liquid fills the chamber, but has a small 'pocket' of air near the hole...stop and make sure you put the last couple of drops in so it is 'filled' (a couple of drops off isn't too bad...more than 3 might be the .5CC's that puts you into 'ping city')..... read how much you have left in the syringe (i.e. 60CC syringe - 7.5CC of blue water left =52.5 CC....).....

place head over bucket or put a towel under the chamber, and pull the plastic off...wipe thoroughly with a nice clean rag, and you can do it again, or...try another chamber, to be consistent I recommend doing 3 (like #1, #3,and #6) and take an average for your calcs (might also tell you something about the milling of your head)....

Make sure to spray some WD, etc. into the chambers and on the milled surfaces after wiping down to combat rusting for storage/later assembly.

This is the quick and easy way...some guys will swear by the burette and graduated cylinder, but for $2 at the vet, and $3 at home depot, it sure beats the $20+ kit out of summit....


Hope that's as clear as mud, I hear some guys do this to their assembled short block, but I've never had reason to go that far...

let us know how you make out, I'll chack back in at 9:30 PST to see if you had some success....(and some fun too...)


-D.Idiot

Thanks DI,clear as bell,but it will probably be tomorrow night before I post my results but Im sure Ill have fun. Thanks ,again.
HyperValiant

_________________
1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

DI,
I cc'ed my head and the method worked great but the results were less than hoped for with an average of 54 cc's from 1,3,6 cylinders.This is on an already cut head.
Now can someone approximate my compression on my 170?
3.430 bore

.073 deck height

54 cc chamber

.040 gasket thickness (compressed)

If you(DI) or someone else can calculate this for me I would greatly appreciate even though I probably wont want to know the numbers,Im guessing about 7.8 or 8 to 1.
Also ,the chambers dont look like they can be cut much more as the wall on the intake /exaust side is only about .030 tall.
Thanks in advance.
HyperValiant

_________________
1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

I got 7.65 to 1 - my calculations and formulii follow -
Please check my logic and numbers -

Area of a circle is 3.14159*r^2

Conversion
1 inch == 2.54 cm
1 ml == 1 cc (cm^3)

Piston Head Area in cm^2
------------------------
3.14159 * (.5 * 3.43 * 2.54)^2 =
3.14159 * 18.97560721 =
59.6135778548639

gasket+deckheight in cm
------------------------
(.040 + .073) * 2.54 = 0.28702

stroke in cm
------------
3.125 * 2.54 = 7.9375

Top Dead Center Volume in cc
-----------------------------
Head Chamber + (volume due to gasket and deck height)
Head Chamber + (Piston Head Area in cm^2 * (gasket+deckheight in cm))

54 cc + 59.6135778548639 * 0.28702 =
54 cc + 17.110289115903036578 cc =
71.110289115903036578 cc

Bottom Dead Center Volume in cc
-------------------------------
Top Dead Center Volume + (Volume displaced by full movement of piston)
Top Dead Center Volume + (stroke in cm * Piston Head Area in cm^2)

71.110289115903036578 + (7.9375 * 59.6135778548639) =
71.110289115903036578 + 473.18277422298220625 =
544.293063338885242828 cc

Static Compression ratio
------------------------
Bottom Dead Center Volume / Top Dead Center Volume
544.293063338885242828 / 71.110289115903036578 =
7.6542096805673100027131850492756

So CR is about 7.65 to 1

Thanks Relic,
I was afraid of that.A buddy and me were taking bets that it wouldnt be much more than 7.5 to 1,now I need to decide whether or not to continue and try to get the compression up on the 170 or start from scratch with the 225.It would be a shame to wasre all tthe work that went into the 170 though but other tthan new pistons I dont see much way to gain a point and a half of compression which is what my cam needs. Thank you very much for doing the math and giving mr the formulas.
HyperValiant

_________________
1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

Can you say TURBO?

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Yeah,,done thought of that Charlie.Maybe.

_________________
1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

I would try to get the head chamber down to 52 cc and redo the
piston/rod assy to get back to a close to zero deck height.

If you can get 52 cc and .005 deck height you have a 9:1 CR
even with the composition head gasket.

My slant has a late 'BL' plug head and luckily after taking a smidge off it it CC's out to 52.5CC and I still have plenty of meat to plane some more if I wanted.

Unless you have a problem with the tolerances with the pistons and valves being realllllly tight, you might think about milling the head a bit more.....of course turbo would be cool too......


good luck, formulate a plan, work the plan, don't let adversity stand in your way, if he does, brush him aside and smirk with reckless abandon....


-D.Idiot

Just for info. The Sealed power catalog, shows these specs for the pistons.
Power forged #L2125F 1.752 CD flat head
Sterling cast #244P 1.740 CD flat head - 8.2:1 CR
Sterling cast #LC244P 1.760 CD, recessed head .208 deep x 2.500 dia 7.0:1 CR
If I remember correctly, Badger also had a low compression piston, but it was a flat top. No cup, just a lower comp dist. I was unable to find the specs, as badger has gone out of business.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Could I deck the block on a 170 to get the compression like you can on a 225.If i take .o68 off the the block and .020 off the head this combo might be salvagable.
HyperValiant

_________________
1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

I would say, yes. But I will let Doc weigh in on this one, as I have never done it myself. The only decking I have done on a 170 was a small amount. However, if you are going to machine the block and the head, you can use any combo to get the total you want. Just make sure of you valve to piston clearance, and make sure your head bolts don't bottom out. Check your push rod lenght also. When I did my head .100, I had to use shorter push rods. Others have been able to use stock lenght. Must be a tolerance stack up thing.

_________________
Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Why not just mill the head another 0.080-0.090"? Easier than pulling the bottom end apart, and you'll be reducing the head chamber area to boot.

How much was the head cut already?

Lou

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