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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:41 pm 
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Depends if the plugs are actually fouled. If they look wet, just get a rag and wipe them off. Run the rag through the electrode gap. Be sure to verify the gap and wiping the plugs down. You used to be able to buy spark plug cleaners that were a mini-sandblasting cabinet that blasted the tip of the plug clean. I would love to get one of those to clean plugs.

Spinning the engine won't hurt it since you should have good oil flow and the motor isn't actually running. You need to spin it a little bit to check spark, if nothing else.

Happily, the spark plugs are great. No fouling at all.
I did a few things after some thinking and testing.
I removed the Pertronix and put back the points (used the nice pretty new points set that DusterIdiot sent with the new diz, gapped correctly), just for now.
Installed new spark plug wires. The old ones didn't fit either the plugs or the cap very well, and I thought the loose connections were probably contributing to problems.
Loosened up the valve lash adjustment nuts as Reed mentioned.

Car still isn't starting. However, the results are looking not awful:
When attempting to start the car after loosening up the adjustment nuts, I get the WHEEE--DEEDEEDEEDEEDEEDEE sounds that Dan described as being a healthy starter sound rather than the odd lopey bad compression sound it had before. I didn't have a chance to do a compression test, so I can't give you exact numbers.
Sidebar: is this: http://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/co ... ckfit=true a compression tester I can use? I know I should own one but I can't afford it right now, but if that'll get me some usable numbers I can grab it next time I'm able to work.

The big thing I noticed: even after reinstalling points, I'm still getting an orange spark from the coil rather than bright blue (this was the same when I tested spark before taking out the Pertronix). Coil shouldn't be bad as it's new, but I'm not sure how to test it to make sure and let's face it it's an Accel so who knows, it could have started to fail in a couple months :roll:.

I don't know what else would cause the weaker spark, since ballast resistor would be bypassed so that wouldn't matter.. unless one of the wires was wonky? I checked connections at both ends and they seemed solid but I can take a closer look if there's something in particular I should look for.

After that I didn't go hunting too much more mostly because it was getting dark.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:55 pm 
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Do you have the + & - coil terminals connected to harness correctly? (+) is +battery side, and (-) goes to distributor, current flows through points when closed, and then to ground. If these two coil connections are reversed it can produce a weak yellow spark

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:06 pm 
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Do you have the + & - coil terminals connected to harness correctly? (+) is +battery side, and (-) goes to distributor, current flows through points when closed, and then to ground. If these two coil connections are reversed it can produce a weak yellow spark
Yes sir, that is indeed how they're connected.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:09 pm 
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after loosening up the adjustment nuts, I get the WHEEE--DEEDEEDEEDEEDEEDEE sounds that Dan described as being a healthy starter sound
Great. Skip the compression test, then; no need.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:33 pm 
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after loosening up the adjustment nuts, I get the WHEEE--DEEDEEDEEDEEDEEDEE sounds that Dan described as being a healthy starter sound
Great. Skip the compression test, then; no need.

Hoooorraaaaaayyyyy!

Whilst I'm getting ready for my next bout of testing (determining cause of weak spark before going back to distributor phasing/timing/etc), a question that belongs in Electrical but is relevant to this whole mess:

Would the condition of the battery cables and/or starter cables be a cause of weak/no spark at coil, if coil and it's immediate connections are good?
I've been going back through the wiring in my head, and the only thing that sticks out to me is the number of corroded connectors and scary looking wires I've been finding. Whilst I'm looking around and saving for an all new wiring harness, I thought of these two specifically. The battery ground cable I know is slightly terrifying, insulation opened in various places, and though I don't think the positive is as bad it probably still isn't great.

I'm getting my multimeter back this weekend so I can get actual numbers, and those cables are on my list of things to replace, but if those cables going out are potentially contributing to my immediate problem then they'll get moved quite higher on my list of things to replace.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:42 pm 
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Would the condition of the battery cables and/or starter cables be a cause of weak/no spark at coil
Not unless it's severely bad.
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I've been going back through the wiring in my head
Never a bad idea, but the wiring in your car is more likely to be at fault here.
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and the only thing that sticks out to me is the number of corroded connectors and scary looking wires I've been finding.
Now that will cause weak spark and other electrical problems. So will dirty points or a faulty condenser.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:52 pm 
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+1. You have some spark, albeit a weak spark. This means that the basic ignition system is functioning, but in a weakened state. This could be due to corrosion buildup on the contacts, a weak battery, or a faulty condenser. I would clean all the connection at the battery, main ground, in the ignition system, and at the coil. I would then REMOVE the bolt in the distributor hold down for diagnostic purposes ONLY. This will allow you almost full range of motion in rotating the distributor to get it started.

Rig up a remote start switch and try starting it as you VERY slowly turn the distributor first clockwise, then anti-clockwise. It SHOULD catch and run. Once you get it up and running, set the timing to 5 tdc and see if you can get the hold down bolt back into its hole and snugged down. If so, yay. If not, you may ned to jump the distributor drive gear a tooth.

You are very very close to getting it up and running. Hang in there, you will get it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:56 am 
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Now that will cause weak spark and other electrical problems. So will dirty points or a faulty condenser.


I just glanced through this thread from page one, lots of yacking about fuel delivery and vacuum leaks, but did not see where a new set of points and condenser were installed. If you have installed new points, and left the ignition key in on position for any length of time while futzzing around checking stuff it is a good possibility they have "Burnt" which causes a high resistance path to ground.

It's been a strong forty years since dealing with points until I got a 6v tractor this fall. I ran into just the same condition weak spark with new coil, wires feeding ignition circuit, and new looking points installed twenty plus years ago when this farm implement was parked.


At some point during the last quarter century the points got fried, they looked OK, they seamed to not have much resistance when tested on bench, but when installed the high resistance carbon buildup is where contact took place causing a big voltage drop.

To test for bad points remove negative coil 12v ** lead to distributor at coil, and substitute a jumper long enough to reach a good clean ground point attached to neg. coil terminal.

Then disconnect at distributor cap the secondary high voltage wire leading from coil. Turn ignition key to "ON, with secondary coil wire held near a ground point spaced to allow a spark to jump or a known good spark plug connected to high voltage cable touching ground, strike the negative 12v jumper to ground.

If spark is bright blue the points need to be filed and sooner than latter replaced along with condenser. Yellow spark indicates there is additional voltage drop on 12v plus side of circuit between coil and battery in addition to ballast resistor; including all conductors connections and ignition switch.

** 12v nominal; actual voltage after ballast resistor will be reduced by a third or so depending on resistance value of said resistor.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:28 am 
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Supercharged
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Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Quote:
I did a few things after some thinking and testing.
I removed the Pertronix and put back the points (used the nice pretty new points set that DusterIdiot sent with the new diz, gapped correctly), just for now.
***
I don't know what else would cause the weaker spark, since ballast resistor would be bypassed so that wouldn't matter.
Quote:
Ballasts change resistance with current as they heat and cool, and thus provide a sort of buffer for the coil. Coil current will be different at higher and lower RPM.

But the REAL nitty gritty reason is "easier starting."

A normal system runs close to 14V, and Mopar coils used to run anywhere from 8-10V AT THE COIL at the bottom end of the ballast.

When you crank the engine for start, the switch bypasses the resistor, so the coil STILL GETS about 10V--so a nice hot spark for starting.

This is something the ol' 6V cars never had.
If I were in your shoes, I would put the ignition system back to completely stock if you have gone back to points for purposes of timing the engine. Put the ballast back in.

Years ago I installed Pertronix in a 74 Pinto. I had to use a Mopar ballast resistor to get the factory Ford coil to work with the Pertronix system. I used the older style four terminal resistor. The kind that has two resistors of different values. The odd thing was that the Pertronix wouldn't run without the resistor and it wouldn't run if I used one of the circuits on the resistor but it did run if I used the other circuit (I never figured out if it was the high or low resistance side).

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:00 pm 
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Dan:
Quote:
Now that will cause weak spark and other electrical problems. So will dirty points or a faulty condenser.


I just glanced through this thread from page one, lots of yacking about fuel delivery and vacuum leaks, but did not see where a new set of points and condenser were installed. If you have installed new points, and left the ignition key in on position for any length of time while futzzing around checking stuff it is a good possibility they have "Burnt" which causes a high resistance path to ground.
Appreciated, but I mentioned it about three posts ago. Haven't left the key in on for any length of time other than in starting attempts, and there's only been about three of those on this set of points. Definitely not burnt.
Quote:
If I were in your shoes, I would put the ignition system back to completely stock if you have gone back to points for purposes of timing the engine. Put the ballast back in.

I never took the ballast out in the first place, so it is back to completely stock. When I mentioned the ballast being bypassed I just meant for the purposes of starting the engine - a bad ballast wouldn't keep the engine from starting, it just hinder it running, so that shouldn't have anything to do with the current problem.
Quote:
Never a bad idea, but the wiring in your car is more likely to be at fault here.
Kneeslapper, Dan. :lol:
Quote:
So will dirty points or a faulty condenser.
True. But those wouldn't affect the spark quality that's going through the coil wire to the distributor, right? They would only affect the spark quality once it gets there - so if I had a good healthy spark at the coil but weak at the wires, then we'd know something was wrong somewhere around the distributor. As it is, it's the spark coming from the coil, on the coil wire, that is weak, which is why I've been concentrating looking in the system between the battery and the coil and not further down the line.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:59 pm 
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Supercharged
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Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Sounds like you know what you are doing and won't be led astray by bad advice. If the ballast is still in the ignition circuit, then I would be leaning towards a faulty coil.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:08 pm 
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So will dirty points or a faulty condenser.
True. But those wouldn't affect the spark quality that's going through the coil wire to the distributor, right?
Wrong. They would.
Quote:
if I had a good healthy spark at the coil but weak at the wires, then we'd know something was wrong somewhere around the distributor.
In that case we'd suspect the secondary side of the ignition system: the fat wire that runs from the coil tower to the middle of the distributor cap, the cap itself, the rotor, and the fat wires that run from the distributor cap to the spark plug.
Quote:
As it is, it's the spark coming from the coil, on the coil wire, that is weak
Right, which means you've got trouble in the primary side of your ignition system: the power supply to the coil, the thin wire from the coil to the breaker points, the points and their ground, the condenser and its ground.
Quote:
I've been concentrating looking in the system between the battery and the coil and not further down the line.
The points and condenser are not "further down the line" in the manner you seem to think they are.

The three books in this thread: buy them and read them ASAP.

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