What do you guys think about running the divisional series on the following grading system instead of the 10 points per round.

Only the races within each division would count and there would be no wild card race included. There may actually be more than three races in some divisions this year.
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Here is an idea that I thought of that would be a excellent option for the SSRN points series. If you are familiar with the way the IHRA Summit bracket championship was structured the first two years they ran it , it is basically the same thing.

They did a lot of thinking on a way to come up with a fair and equitable rating system for drivers across the country. This is what they came up. A PR (personal rating system) for each driver based on the number of actual round wins versus the number of possible rds had they won each race entered. If a racer entered a race that took 5 rds to win and only won 3 then their PR rating for that race was 3 divided by 5*100 or 60%. Each race you enter increases your possible rounds total. In order to be eligible for the championship they had to enter 30 possible rounds meaning the races they entered must have taken at least thirty rounds to win. If the races they entered only took 25 rounds to win then they had 5 rounds added to achieve the 30 required. That was 5 rounds they never had a chance to win so it was in their best interest to attend races and at least have shot at winning.

If we apply this same theory to our series it solves a lot of the problems we discussed. Rain-outs and rescheduled race are not a problem. It does not penalize racers that can not make it back for the event. It does not penalize you for races you can not attend or do not enter. It does not discourage other areas like west coast or the guy on the internet wanting to put a race in the New York area. Who cares if it is only a 2 rd race…you are not forcing everyone to attend to have a chance to win and it only counts 2 rds towards the total rounds needed..
You could set a minimum number of possible rounds at let say 18. That is basically half of the races. There were a possible 36 rds if you exclude Mo-Kan and count Vegas as 3(which it was) instead of the minimum 4 like this year.

So here are how the points this year would have finished up.

Rodney Hargis 21 out of a possible 33 or 21/33 for a PR of 63.6% rds won.
Mike Jeffery 10 out of a possible 16 or 10/16 for a PR of 62.5%
Dale Rose 20/33 for a PR of 60.6%
Ron Parker 12/25 for a PR of 48%
Ron Hamby 8/21 for a PR of 38%
Norm Foster 7/21 for a PR of 33%
Jason Davis 4/18 for a PR of 22%

Jason only attend 13 possible rds but had 5 rds added to achieve a total of 18 possible. This is a way to encourage racers to attend at least 4 races. If we made the minimum possible rounds 16 that would mean that by attending four 4rd races you would not have any rds added to your possible rounds total. Entering more races would give you more rds to improve your PR with and would be the only way to improve.

Since we race each other you could have big swings in the rankings after each race. Unlike the IHRA where you were only racing at your home track we are racing each other at every race. Only one of us can win each race which means that is the only person who will achieve a PR of 100% for that race. A racer may still better their PR by winning only 2 rds of a 4rd race if they have a PR below 50%. We would all be racing for it and anyone who attends at least 4 races would stand a good chance at placing high in the overall points race no matter where they currently reside. If there is a tie for position in PR rankings then the racer that has the higher possible rounds total wins the tie. Meaning the racer that attended more races would get the higher position which is only fair.

Since we are racing each other it could actually cause people to attend more races. If you know the person right behind( or in front of) you is attending the last two races and stands a chance of increasing his PR by winning rounds the only way for you to stay ahead of( or pass) them is to attend and win rounds. The only way to improve your PR is to race not sit at home. It would be a way to know that the overall winner actually won it on the track against the other competitors fair and square.

Tom Drake

Thanks Tom, it looks like a well considered system.

Does anyone have any specific problem with the system or comments on what needs to be changed about it.

I feel like it's rules that would put me in contention. My car's consistancy and my racing experience (or inexperience in my case) would appear to be the biggest factor in winning with Tom's suggested system. I like that, but I'm just one person.

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1980 Aspen 225 super six

I guess wether I vote or not is irrelevent. It looks to me that unless you live in or near the midwest you cant hope to make many races if any at all.
The closest race to me looks like colombus OH and that is at least a 12 hour drive. What went wrong at Pittsburgh that there isn't a race there again? How about Maple grove PA? Why isnt there one at Englishtown NJ?
oh well you all have fun racing each other. I will be racing I just hopped to compete with you folks.
I'm not ranting I'm just a little bummed.

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i think there should be a race at englishtown NJ also its worth the ride from nc to me

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http://www.geocities.com/slantisxduster
http://www.mattcrane.net

Try living in Washington.....the state..........12 hours would be nice...

Dave M

Everyone would love to have races right in there "backyard" but we have to go where there is an interest and a willing promoter.

Try to get to any races you can, it is lot's of fun and it supports our effort.
And don't be afraid to try to set-up a race in your local area, even if it's a no point deal and you draw a small group, it shows interest and can build on it.
DD

Okay, I'm still a newbie, so excuse me if I ask a couple dumb questions... I really like the Divisional idea because I think it allows for more growth of the series as a whole.

1. In this scenario a racer from say Deming, NM could set up a local race and have it added to the schedule.
a. Only he and two buddies race Slant 6 powered cars for a 2 round race. So the winner now has 2/2.
b. This winner then travels to Vegas and places 2nd in a 3 round race. So now he adds this races 2/3 to his 2/2 for 4/5.
c. These are the only 2 races he attends and the minimum is 18. So at season's end he has 4/18 for a PR of 22% against the "National Series Championship". He may even place 7th in the country as did Jason.
d. Can his Divisional standings in the Central(?) Division be calculated against only those races within the Central(?) Division with whatever minimum number is fair for that Division? He may wind up with a 5/7 for that Division and place 2nd for the Central Division.

2. In this scenario would we have to wait until season's end to figure out what the minimum is for each Division and the Overall? There is no way of telling before a race how many rounds it will take to win it.

I have more questions... Will post again later.

Rob

Ok Rob,
After talking with Seymour last night (for an hour! ) he has canned the divisional idea for this coming year. There were only one or two of us who liked it and he did not feel it promoted growth.

To answer your questions:

1c) Depending on the minimum we agree - if we agree on 18 then yes his PR rating would be 4/18. If we agree on 16 (4 four rd races) then his score would be 4/16 or a PR of 25% win percentage.

1d) If the divisonal was still around then only the division races would have counted. So the above race would have been 4/5 for 80% in his division and if those were the only races in the division.

2) We would set the minimum roun d requirement before the season started. You would know before the first race what the minimum round requirement was for the season. As races got added you could adjust this requirement from year to year, if needed.

Did that help?

Tom

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Nitrous cars are like old men on Viagra. Once the bottle is empty they are useless.
FJD

Thanks Tom. The explanation does help. I guess since the Divisional idea is canned it is all theoretical now anyway. I was pretty excited there for a minute.

So your proposal for this idea is just for "The Series" as it exists now. I get it.

I thought the "Divisional" idea would allow for more initiative by those of us out in areas not readily supported by "The Series" as it exists now. I had grand ideas going through my head of getting something started wherever the Army sends me next. Heck, I even thought it would be cool to have a Netherlands Division represented and other such foolish ideas.

I don't understand the "doesn't promote growth" thing, but whatever.

Thanks for all of your efforts in promoting the series and trying to make things equitable for more people.

Rob

I think the divisional idea has promise as well. The PR system could allow us to add races anywhere without penalizing the existing racers. Two and three rds races are no problem because it only counts 2-3 rds towards the minimum total and would allow us to grow in area where there might not be 12-15 cars attending each race.

We had a discussion about coming up with something regarding this PR system so stay tuned.


Tom

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Nitrous cars are like old men on Viagra. Once the bottle is empty they are useless.
FJD

This is the best idea I have seen on here yet.

Count me as a yes.

Bob

This is only my opinion, so please treat it as such. The series stopped growing when it became more oriented to fast box cars. If you look at the history, that is when things started going south. While there is nothing wrong with fast box cars, the average Joe does not want to have to race one in the first round at every event.

I still firmly believe that to get the growth jump started we need to focus on guys with street cars again. To me it is very simple. All you have to do is split the street cars away from the race cars for the first 2 rounds. It will take "0" time to do, cost nothing, and I bet attendance will start climbing back up again. I know that the big drawback is that some of the fast guys will whine about not having ducks in the first 2 rounds, but so what? If you think you're good enough to win a Championship you should be able to do it anyway, right?

While I like fast cars as much as anyone, but I just got the feeling that we were getting a little big for our britches the last couple years. I don't want to see us going the way of the KOS series.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Dennis - I will buy into that argument if you can answer these two questions. Let me preface this by saying I am all for trying to separate the footbrake cars from the box cars as best we can as long as it does not create extra bye runs when there is an odd number of footbrake cars in a round.

1) Name the street car guys that in the past have attended at least two races a year that no longer attend.

2) Now name the number of street car guys that have moved on to a fast box car.(i.e. - Dale Rose, Norm, Ron Hamby...etc)

I would love to get the street car guys from .org and .com to show up! I have offered tow money, prizes...etc with no luck. I think the random ladder deal has helped. We had boxes cars running each other in the first round this year as well as street cars running each other in the first round. I personally never heard a box guy complain. Maybe some did ...

Tom

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Nitrous cars are like old men on Viagra. Once the bottle is empty they are useless.
FJD

I can not give the names because I have not seen them for so long. That is the problem. We used to have a bunch of street car guys hang with us, but they are all gone.
Yes, but for every one who has stepped up there have been 2 leave the series. We have been losing fast cars too. I myself have one that may never see the light af day.

I am in negotiations now to possibly buy another Slant street car that was going to be fielded this year. The owner is looking at a big block 4 speed Belvidere.

I too have sponsored races and paid expenses out of my own pocket. What ended it for me was that none of the Southern racers wanted to bother coming up here because they had enough points races down South. Can't say I blame them, but it's a different story now that races are thinning out.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Im with you ole buddy Bagel i do not duck hunt
Run what you brung and hope you brung enuff
I am going to footbrake one more seasion for a special reason more to come on that.
Everybody knows what kind of effort it takes to try to win a
championship , go at least six races and hope to win four are right at that and have the comintiment. to do that look at the last 5 years and who made that comintiment i know it cost money and you have to be able to take off from work.
But Bagel last year you put up 500 dollars and i put 100 dollars at Clay City and look what happened. What 3 street cars showed up.
We can seperate street cars and race cars for 2 rounds that is fine with me but if you think you can win a national championship in a street car make the comitiment and see what happens. Then we get into what is a street car and a race car so it is difficult to come up with a good answer.


Your Redneck Friend Possum