I just got my /6 running pretty good yesterday. After sitting for several weeks, it took a while for the fuel to get there (I guess). I finally poured some fuel down the carb and she lit right off. Purred like a kitten. Then, when I got home tonight, I decided to see if she'd start again. I cranked and pumped and cranked and pumped some more. She finally started and spitting and trying to start 4 or 5 times. The more I pumped before hitting the starter, the better she tried to start. What's going on here? Anyone have any ideas? I do have a new fuel pump on it and a rebuilt carb. It just acts like there's no gas in the float bowl.

dave

...if there's no gas in the carb, there won't be much to shoot in by working the accelerator pump, either. I'd investigate a choke problem first.

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

All I can tell is that the choke does set itself when the throttle is depressed once. But that doesn't seem to be enough. Sorry. I'm kind of dumb about carbs. What other things should I be looking for. It will kick off of the fast idle when it's warmed up and runs smoothly once started, even when cold tonight I could give it throttle without any problems.

dave

What kind of carb. are you using?

Eric - Ummmm. Not sure. Just what was on it stock. 74 Scamp 225. That's all I can tell you right now. There are two ports on the front side - one is approx 1/8 and the other is 1/4 or 3/8. There is nothing connected there - they are blocked off. Maybe this could have something to do with it?

dave

Probably a Holley 1945. POS

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82 D150-225/727
02 Dakota-3.9/5 speed
87 GMC C7000-8.2 Detroit Diesel/5+2

Jeb - if that's what I got, it's all I got to work with.

dave

...could be boiling the fuel out of the carb, the fuel pump may be allowing gas to drain back to the tank, etc.

I'll tell you this, and it's not scientific, just a theory. I have had many old high-mile "junk" cars (among them my '72 Newport 400) that start immediately, cold or hot, if you drive them or start them at least every couple days. If you go even three days without running, starting is a bitch and requires pumping the pedal and cranking and cranking. The first logical thought is a dry bowl or a marginal pump, but on the Newport, for instance, I have tried several pumps (one brand new), and there is gas aplenty in the carb when the hard starts occur. Since this one and others have been basically worn-out motors, my theory-of-the-moment is that the valve guides slowly drip oil into various combustion chambers over the course of days, fouling the plugs. The pumping then serves to wash the oil off the plugs, and after much cranking (now they're wet-fouled with gas), "chug chug vroom!". The fact that the compression is probably less than ideal is probably a contributing factor.

Does this relate to your problem? Possibly, but probably not. You tried to start shortly after you got home, right? Was it dead cold or hot? If hot, it may well have boiled out the gas, and if that was the case, you made matters worse by pumping. Next time if it is hot and doesn't torch right off, slowly open the gas about half-way whilst cranking and see if it doesn't cough to life. If it was cold when you had the problem, I'd try tightening up the choke flap a little (if possible, depends on your choke thermostat).

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

DW - It was stone cold - hadn't been run since the afternoon before. There are two ports on the front of the carb - one about 1/8 inch in diameter, the other about 1/4 - 3/8. I'm not sure what these are for; they are plugged off. I've asked someone for a picture/diagram so I and figure out what these are for. Could be a contributing factor? The engine has about 76,000 on it, but doesn't smoke at all. Still, doesn't mean there couldn't be oil slowly dripping down into the cylinders as you relate. Once she's been started, if started again within, say, 2-3 hours, she fires right up, but if its set overnight, we have to go throught the "drill" again. I'm not sure, given the fact that it doesn't smoke, that that much oil could drip down over night? I'll check out the choke operation tonight and see if I can tell what's going on there.

I think the choke is your most likely culprit. Tell me what you do have hooked to the carb. You should have at the very least, a PCV going to a large nipple on the base, a small vacuum hose also hooked to the base going up to the choke pull-off diaphragm, and a vacuum advance (from distributor) going to a ported source, usually higher on the carb on the passenger side. The other large nipple is probably the bowl vent to the charcoal canister. If it is not hooked up, it will run just fine, but it should not be capped. If it is up near the top of the carb/forward and points down, uncap this nipple and leave it open. Any other unused vacuum hookups should be capped.

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

I have hooked up everything you say - pcv, vaccum advance, choke pull off. I will uncap the larger nipple on the front (yes, it does point downward). It is possible that the choke pull off hose is "leaking", and that could, I suppose, cause problems. The vaccum advance hose, if I remember correctly, it attached to a nipple on the passenger's side, at the base of the carb, right next to the pcv hose. I can't recall where the choke pull off diaphram is attached on the carb. Maybe I have a couple hoses switched, although the choke pull off hose was pretty much "molded" into shape and, I think, would only connect to the nipple it is attached to and still keep the shape it is in.

dave

First let's figure out if the carb is empty or full when the hard starting occurs. Let it sit for a few days (or however long it takes to cause the hard-start problem), then remove the air cleaner, hold the choke rod so it won't close, peer down into the carb and operate the throttle lever a few times. If you see a solid, strong shot of fuel from the accelerator pump jet, the carb's got fuel in it. If none (or just a few sputtering dribbles) then the carb's mostly empty.

It's very difficult for fuel to drain down through the fuel line; that's not usually how carbs empty. The carb inlet needle/seat *and* both fuel pump inlet valves are in the way of such a drain path. Usually carburetors empty by evaporation and/or syphon. If the float is set too high, fuel can syphon out of the float bowl through the main jets and nozzles. If the fuel in the fuel line and/or carburetor is exposed to too much heat, it can simply boil off.

If both of the fuel pump's check valves are leaky, though, then draindown can occur -- and it'll drain all the way back to the fuel tank, requiring VERY extended cranking (with the weakened pump valves) to drag fuel back up from the tank.

Likewise, if there's a pinhole leak in the line before the pump, it'll let the fuel behind the pump drain all the way back to the tank, and at low pump operating speeds that occur with cranking, it'll be very tough to suck fuel back up.

finally, be aware of the seasonal differences in gasoline blends. Winter gasoline and summer gasoline have very different volatility characteristics. A COLD cold start on summer gasoline is a very frustrating proposition!

Dan - thanks very much. I'm gonna check it out when I get home tonight. I'll first check to see if the accelerator pump is pumping a good solid stream into the carb. If that looks good, I'll then check to see if the butterfly closes completely when I set the choke. I'll also check out the vaccum hoses to make sure everything looks good there. Thanks very much.

dave

On a 50ºF day my Valiant will boil off all the gasoline in the carburetor in short time. Trying to start it a few hours after hot shut down I have to crank until new gasoline fills carburetor. Trying to start it 5 minutes to hour later after hot shutdown it is all flooded out from gasoline boiling out of carb and running into engine. Me broken English?

Craig - English fine

When I got it fired up Sunday morning, I then let it set for several hours. A friend came over and so I decided to see if she'd start up. She fired rightup. After sitting all Sunday night and during the day on Monday, she wouldn't light off without a lot of pumping, etc. When she finally started, she was fine. I'm thinking it probably is, as others have said, a choke problem. But thanks for the info. It's always good to know these things.

dave