I have three "core quality" cable shift 904s and I am deciding which one
to bring to the rebuilder. There are two that are almost identical,
one from a 60 and other from a 61 Valiant. The third one from a 65
barracuda is just a bit different - the output shaft appears to be a larger
diameter. The pot joint flange has the same bolt pattern but the "tulip"
shape where the output shaft attaches is a bit different. So my questions
are:
1) is the 65 904 significantly better than a 61 904 in some manner?
2) what do I need to verify to be sure the 65 904 will be a direct replacement for the trans currently in my 61 Valiant?
3) Will the parts cost to rebuild the trans differ greatly between the 61 and the 65 units?

What kind of car are you putting the trans into?
Not a significant/strength-related change, just a different shape. But, even though they're all cable-shifted, the '65 is set up for lever-shift, while the '60-'61 trans are set up for button-shift. There are differences in the valve body. You can swap the entire valve body to get whichever setup you need.
There were several little engineering changes between '60 and '65. The '65 trans is a little quieter in 1st gear, but the '60-'61 isn't exactly noisy. Most of the engineering changes in friction material, snap ring design, etc. would be commonized (to the latest variants) with a complete rebuild. The '60-'61 Valiant transmissions, being from behind 170 engines, would have fewer clutches in the pack than the '65 Barracuda (presumably 225), but you can specify the number of clutch discs in the packs when you have the trans built ("5"). The '65 trans will be set up for use with the in-pan filter, while the '60-'61 would have had NO filter (just an intake screen) from the factory, unless someone added the in-line filter clipped to the block near the starter. That inline filter is very difficult to find nowtimes, and—contrary to what I used to think—you can't just bolt on the in-pan filter without also using the '64-up trans pan, which is relieved to allow proper filter-to-pan clearance to avoid fluid starvation. No big deal, just make sure to use the correct pan for the filter setup you wind up using.
OK, it's going in your '61 Valiant? Then you need the valve body assembly out of one of a '60-'64 trans. Other than that...it's a direct swap.
No. Be advised, the torque converter is the same, but the torque converter ring gear (which the starter engages) is not. The '60-'61 cars use a special ring gear that mates with the direct-drive starter used on those cars. The '62-up cars use a different ring gear that mates with the gear-reduction starter used on those cars.

The trans will still be behind a 170 engine - would you put in fewer steels
and frictions in for a stock 170 verses a slightly warmed over 170.

Does adding a 2400 rpm stall torque converter to the mix change how
the clutch packs should be configured?

Also regarding the ring gear - this particular 61 Valiant has
been "upgraded" to the reduction gear starter by a previous
owner - Yes it has that distinctive chrysler starter sound.

And back to the valve body (lever cable verses pushbutton cable)
Is there an easy way of ID for the valve body to determine which
type cable shift it belongs with? - mostly to verify this really is a lever
cable type trans - as this was an ebag special.

Guess I fell asleep at the keyboard and got logged out.

The modification to the valve body was that extra travel was added to the manual valve to provide a second Neutral position beyond Reverse. A capspring was also added to the manual valve to spring load the valve OUT of that 2nd Neutral position. If you have no other means of IDing the '65 trans, try pushing/pulling the shift cable and seeing if there's a 6th, spring-loaded position on the other side of the 5th (Reverse) position. There will very clearly be five and only five positions on the '60-'61 trans; if the cable feel is very different on the other side of "R" in the '65 trans, you've got a '65 (or '64 lever-shift) trans.

The changeover to the gear-reduction starter would've definitely involved a later torque converter, but then you have to be sure and tell your trans tech that it's out of a '63 (so he gets you the right ring gear for your new converter). The Mopar-sounding starter is nifty, but the '60-'61 starter also sounds kinda cool and unique.

More clutches = better, within reason. No reason to stick with a 3-disc clutch if you can just as easily have a 4- or 5-disc clutch.

2400 stall converter...? H'mmm. Kinda on the high side if you're sticking with a near-stock cam, maybe not if you're putting in a rumpity-rump one. In-town fuel mileage may suffer.

I have a 67 3 clutch 904 apart for rebuild. What do I leave out to make room for 2 extra discs? I would rather have 4 or 5 as I am using this in a T bucket Everybody uses a SBC not me!!!!
\6T

From the 904 rebuild manual it appears as though you just put
what you desire, either 4 or 5 sets of clutch frictions and steels in the front clutch pack. The spring in the clutch pack will just end up loaded
more heavily with 5.

5 is specified for SB and 4 for \6

The trans that I think is a 65 (but wish were a 64) has the casting
mark a circle with a 64 and the case casting number 6 - 2464935
and at the edge of the pan lip stamped numbers 2466119W and
161641

Any way to tell if this is a 64 or 65 trans. from the above numbers?
Or do I need to pull it apart and do the ID from the valve body ?

There is no shift cable installed, so I was not able to do the 5 or 6
position test Dan recommended - will tear the pan off for that test
if needed later.

BTW - will any 60-64 pushbutton valve body swap into a 65 ?
Or is it only a 64 that will swap?

Rats...my '64 and '65 FPCs are in storage in Denver. Check that "circle" around the 64 more carefully. It may actually be a "doughnut" divided into 12 segments, with punch marks in some of them. Count the number of compartments that contain punch marks -- that is the number of the month the trans housing was cast. So, for example, if 3 out of the 12 segments contain punch marks, then that's 3/64 (March) which means the trans was originally in a '64 car. If 10 segments contain punch marks, then that's October of '64 and the trans would've gone in a '65, originally.
It's comin' to that, unless someone can crack open a '64 or '65 FPC and see what he sees. The "rooster comb" (bottom end of the selector shaft, which contains the detents for the spring-loaded ball that cause the "click stops" in each gear position) will have 5 detents on a pushbutton trans, 6 on a lever trans.
Yes, any '60-'64 904 valve body will swap into a '65 904 trans, and vice versa.

Since you're running a 170, you may want to spend the moderate extra bucks and get Pat "Torqueflite Patty" Blais' part throttle downshift mod done.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Well the circle on this one is not a donut
but there is a sequence of lines that makes 12 boxes -
of course the whole thing is upside down with the trans on the pan -
fun to read ! If if were right side up it would look like
|B|B|B|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:| (64)

The B represents kind of a blob between the lines and the
: represents three very small bumps - probably a punch mark
on the mold

What does this factory graffiti mean ?

My best guess without seeing a clear photo is that you've got a 3/64 trans there. With the linear-style date indicator box, they tended to start at the left and move rightward for sequential months.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I tried to get a picture of the case and valve body casting marks, but
had no success - need a macro mode - oh well.

I did remove the valve body and got this picture of the shift lever.
Looks quite a bit longer between the detent and the stop on one end
than the pic in the FSM for 63 dart. Means it is the 65 one year only
valve body - doesn't it?

http://members.cox.net/relic-lover/vb904lvr.JPG

That would be my guess as well -- the extended ramp area on the right side of the rooster comb does remind me of what was inside my own '65's transmission, but it's been a lotta years since I owned that car. Note the '64 doughnut in the valve body casting! Looks like it has most of the segments filled up...

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Just looked at a manul shift push button Valve Body, I have on the shelf. The detent is a lot shorter. Yours looks like the 65 valve body.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225

Push button cable trans have 5 detents and a single "pointer" for the neutral safety switch. Console or column shift VBs have the 6 detents and 2 pointers. (see image w/ insert)

To add additional friction discs and steels, you need a clutch drum with a higher snap ring groove. These are found in many HD and V8 transmissions.
DD