O.K. so I was at Clay city this year and was having a really hard time watching after getting knocked out in the first round. Football is easy, I root for the home team, baseball, hockey, etc...
You get the idea, but with slant six racing, I pretty much like everyone and only care who wins when they are laddered beside me.

If I can get a thinking guy like Rob on board, I know we could come up with some really good ideas. I'm just a rookie, so what do I know, if it's a bad idea, please don't be afraid to say so.

I'm throwing this idea out very early, so that we could have plenty of time to come up with something interesting to read about and perhaps arrive at something that will be more fun for the guys who arn't able to attend a lot of races.

So, Teams is the basis. Two or three or four teams and each has a captain. Maybe points leaders can become captains, but I haven't figured out how we do it yet.

Regular points arn't an issue, that system will remain the same with every man for himself and such. Since the individual points racing would not be changed by team rules, there isn't much chance of racers cheating for team points by letting a teamate beat them.

Teams would elect who will race for them at events. Teams could collect points from 2 guys per race 1st, 2nd, alternates. The same person couldn't be it every time.(more later) Early planning is again necessary, but back up plans for breaks and failure will be important all season long. I don't yet know when it would need to be official as to who was racing for team points, but I'm sure it could add an interesting twist.

Teams would need to mentor new people to improve race turnout and points standings. Perhaps some points would be gained by overall team ET improvement, Or lowest average team ET , Best team consistency. Most team members attending races. The list could be as long or as short as we want.

Maybe there could be a special equation which divides the number of points a driver earns by the previous number of seasons that a driver has been in competition and then divide again by the number of team events that the driver has tried to earn points for this season. This would really mix things up big. On one hand, it might be safe to bet on the experienced guy with a great car and sure points, but on the next, the new guy could score big just by getting into the second round.

Weakly figured example:
4th year racer gets 31 points in his 2nd team race this season
31 / 4 / 2 = 3.875 points
same race, same team
1st year racer gets 11 point in his first team race
11 / 1 / 1 = 11 points

14.875 points

Team 2:
3rd year racer gets 21 points in first team race
21/ 3 / 1 = 7 points
2nd year guy gets 11 points in his first
11/ 2/ 1 = 5.5 points

12.5 points
Division by number of years racing isn't exactly right, but you get the idea

now, Team 1 gets some points for winning points at this event, and that keeps a rookie win such as at clay city from blowing the team results for the whole season, or keep the points raw, and makes the other teams scramble to get their new guys to get out to more events. You deceide what's better. Could also have a system such as in spades where when your team is down by so much, you can call blind points and double points for making it. (or nothing, of course)

New guy gets more points, but it's a bigger risk, and a greater challenge for teams to find serious new people and help them to be prepared.

It would be good for teams to find lots of new guys from the start in hopes of some lucky wins early on, and then take the safe points as the season heats up, or get more radical with selections as the point spreads widen.

We could have a draft each season.
Teams would get bragging rights, and maybe trading cards.

The overall goal of teams could be:
Improve race turnout.
Encourage new people and put them in groups with experienced guys.
Make slant six racing better and more interesting for everyone.

Anybody interested???

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1980 Aspen 225 super six

I proposed a team idea last year like north vs south ..etc. Did not seem to be any interest in it. Thought maybe one race a year could be like team finals where each team raced each other kind of like IHRA does their bracket finals.

_________________
Nitrous cars are like old men on Viagra. Once the bottle is empty they are useless.
FJD

Well, it's possible that it's an idea that won't build interest for a few more years, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. Perhaps if it's brought up and talked about enough times, we'll get something that interests people more. This also means I don't have to take any credit (or heat) for the idea, since Tom already proposed it.

The shortfall I see with your, North vs South teams, is that the northern and southern divide already exists (for many of us who can't travel frequently) A Team system which is not geographically based would create some different dynamics than already exist. Just imagine if we also had a 'west' team, those guys might never get a chance to race a different team. Sometimes is good to have a little higher purpose than just racing for myself, and it might eventually help start more races out west, because even if a person can't travel enough to be a points contender, they might help their team by doing well at one local event.

All these team details might also give the announcers a little more to talk about during the slant six races.

Do you like any of my ideas Tom? As a veteran driver, what don't you like about it, or how would you think is fair to rate drivers based on experience? I don't know that dividing points by years of experience is valid, since it could be easy to find a good ringer.

I like that when the team idea didn't fly, you put together the consistency challenge, which was interesting, and even had a surprise ending. Please accept my thanks for your support of the slant six racing program.

_________________
1980 Aspen 225 super six

The main problem is that there are just not enough active racers up North.

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

OK how do you propose we divide the teams up? What happens when one team only has two cars at a race? Why not stay with the same team every year instead of changing them from year to year? Who is going to keep track of all of this and be at every race? We can not ask Seymour do anything else - he is already shouldering 90% of the burden now.

I like people who are thinking..keep it up.

_________________
Nitrous cars are like old men on Viagra. Once the bottle is empty they are useless.
FJD

I'm all for getting new racers involved in the series and pairing up new guys with experienced ones in a team concept sounds like an interesting idea.

Trying to follow your points calculations had me scratchin' my head just a little. I'm a newby to all of this too! We should try to keep it as simple as possible.

Tom's comment about keeping track of everything is certainly valid. I think it would have to be up to the racers to keep track and feed the information to Seymour or whomever to compile together. Kind of like the Regional Director concept again.

The team idea would definitely take some brain power because there are so many variables; different racers at different races throughout the year, etc. Setting up the teams at the beginning of the year would take some doing. Many of the series racers don't frequent this message board, so it would take some coordination off line to set up the teams and then for each team to put together their game plan throughout the year.

You'll probably get a few racers (like you and me and maybe Tom) that like the scheming and planning and trying new ideas, but many racers will just want to race their own race. They'll certainly be willing to help new racers and probably be willing to let you recruit them into a team and let you count their win points toward your team total (as long as they don't have to alter their own racing program and it doesn't affect them in any other way)

I love your enthusiasm and appreciate your ideas! Let's continue to bat this thing back and forth a little. I really like the recruitment aspect of it. I just don't have a lot of savvy on the points figuring side of things.

_________________
Rob

I’m Mater
The Kentucky Poser

I'm gonna throw out answers, but they are just the ideas off the top of my head and I welcome input.
A Draft, we make 3 teams, and the captains are the top 3 points leaders from the previous year, but they can choose to pass if they don't want to be captain. After the first year, each team will choose their own captian by their own team rules. Points leader within the team might be a good way to pick.

Then we make up the pool of available drivers, the first year will be the hardest, since everyone will need a team. We draw straw for which team picks first and then go round robin each team through the list until all the available names have been picked. This is a lot like picking teams at recess, but there is a little more involved. Since new drivers (tenitively) have more points value than veterans, teams might not want to pick in 'order' of highest points from last year, but there is surely some value to that. You'll have to consider up front picking at least one guy from the area of each race who you know will make it, and a couple of guys who are prepared to travel this year. Lots of variables, and it does sound like a lot of work for one person (the captain) to start from nothing.

Maybe we could draw the first few names for each team from a hat, so at least each Team would have a couple of people to organize before they had to start making the difficult draft selections.

Rules for trading drivers would eventually need talked about, and I haven't devised a plan for how we deal with new drivers who want to join a team in the middle of a season.
Don't know yet. We could divide the points by the number of drivers that each team has at a race,
or we could force teams to select which 1 or two (depending on race turnout) drivers will be racing for team points prior to the start of the race.

This would be much like the current system where drivers can only count points from 6 events and they must declare prior to the start of the race if they will use it in their points total.

If a team doesn't show any cars, they will not win. That's the easy part.
I agree.
Nobody has to be at every race. We WILL need someone at every race to report the results. Some people will have to step up and do a little work. I will be happy to do it at races which I attend, but I realistically will only attend 3 next year (but hopefully 5 ) If we can't get one person at each race to organize the team details, the race won't count on the team points for that year, but I don't think teams will be around for a second year if nobody steps up and offers to write down a few names.
I agree, the only thing I want Seymour to get is the results so that he can print them for people to enjoy. As I gain experience, I hope to step up as I have seen some others do to pull some of the load off Seymour, but I wouldn't want to step on his feet either. I already printed and mailed my orgional post on this topic to Seymour, and I will send an updated letter once a few more people check in and a few more details are in clearer focus. Please include your name at the end of your posts so that Seymour can tell who is suggesting what
Not sure, but I'm hoping that this team idea will only help that.
The goal of my point system:

Reward teams for picking newer drivers to score points for their team by making newbie points worth more, since usually new guys don't make it out of the first round.

Reward teams for selecting different drivers to score points at each race by reducing the effective points value of drivers at their second and third team points races.

Reward teams that make a solid effort to send several drivers to every event.

The equation I suggested is pretty raw, but tries to meet these goals. I'm sure it still needs some adjustment.


Yes, but we need a couple of rules to make it worthwhile and use the team idea to improve race turnout and encourage new people.
Like any sport, knowing the rules (once we had some) gives you a better chance of winning.

If we where all about brute force, we'd all ditch the six and 'drop in a 440' , so I think this crowd would accept enough rules so that it requires a little strategy to win. Some of us might welcome a little more strategy.
Communication is the most difficult part of just about any plan. With practice, we might just be able to pull it together, but yes, it will be hard. It might also be lots of fun and introduce lots of good people to each other when they might normally never have met of talked. I've experienced this quite a bit this racing season, and I hope it will continue.
I agree, shouldn't hurt the guys who arn't interested and I could be lots of fun for those who are.

That's my limit for one day, hope to hear more comments,

Paul Moran

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1980 Aspen 225 super six

Some good thoughts and ideas Paul. Thanks for making the points breakout a little clearer for me. I grasp the concept better now and agree with it. I like the three way variable.

Not just newby and experience, but throw in the variable of races attended during the season to encourage more varied participation.

I can see some teams (or at least a person or two from each team) really hashing out a plan to try and gain the most points during the season.

Having team members from different parts of the counrty so you can cover the whole season better makes sense and would bring people "together" that otherwise would never "meet". Even just through emails and phone calls.

It definitely has some merit from where I sit. The tricky part will just be getting enough people involved to make it meaningful and coming up with the points rules to make it equitable. I like it and would be willing to try my hand at this team idea.

I really appreciate your enthusiasm. Thanks!

_________________
Rob

I’m Mater
The Kentucky Poser

How about something like this: we divide up the country using NHRA's divisional map( there's seven of them ). You can declare points at three races in your division and one in any other division ( or if it's easier on the distances involved two and two, either way four total ) You use existing races like Mopar shows or local muscle car or nostalgia races. The top four points earners REGARDLESS OF DIVISION and then the remaining top four cars from the seven divisions ( 32 cars ) meet at, lets say. Monster Mopar or Heartland Park to settle it. A lot of folks with Slant Six hot rods may not want to tow 12 hours, but might jump in the fray if they could race several times within a half days drive from the ol' casa. What does everybody think? RICK

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If you can't be good, at least be colorful

Hey Rick,

I'm a big supporter of the Divisional concept. Tom had suggested something similar and there were some ideas tossed around, but it got squashed at the Banquet apparently. There is a pretty long thread about it.

I like the idea of Slant 6 racers from all over being able to count points at their local races and then have a "shoot out" where you have to meet up with other Slant 6ers to decide it. That would get folks involved from out west or wherever who normally can't attend the current "Slant 6 Series" races.

There are apparently only a handful of us that support the "Divisional" concept. Tom Drake is/was the driving force making recommendations along these lines and a few of us here threw in some ideas. It's too bad it didn't have the support necessary to make it happen. Maybe 2006.

_________________
Rob

I’m Mater
The Kentucky Poser

There would need to be solutions to some of the same questions that were asked in regard to teams, problem is, the solutions that make teams work don't work on the divisional problems.

Example:
How do we/ and who is responsible to keep track of who gets points and where they are racing for points outside of slant six events.

Answer:
We can't, I could race every weekend at a different track and only see another slant six car a couple times in a year. If I race 15 times in one summer, I could just take my 2 best and declare myself in the top 4. That doesn't really meet any of the goals I've offered, and while it might be fun , it doesn't really serve to fundementally improve slant six racing.

The only fair, reliable, and practical way I see to limit this kind of creative points accumulation is to only allow points at sanctioned events. Some day when there is a comprehensive, searchable track database, it might become practical to verify a drivers record and then open the doors to a divisional slant six program, but I don't think the time is now, it is beyond our current resources.

I will plug the team idea again, because it really starts to hold water compared others. National, and even international (how about Australia) event would be held in remote locations, by small groups of slants six enthusiasts, and count as part of the team season,(possibly very important parts) even though there is no chance that they will be able to reach a cental location at the end of the season. The goal being to do as best as you can at your local slant six race, or to gather interest in your area and find a local track that will support slant six racing one weekend of the year or more.

The proposed team rules encourage growth in any area where several slant six cars can meet.

Some day I would like to do a little closed course road racing. Guys like Lou already do, and it sounds like fun. I can't think of a reason that a road race couldn't also be an annual team event if enough people are interested and a location was found. This is another great way to expand and reach more people without hurting the existing drag racing program.

_________________
1980 Aspen 225 super six

Paul I like you're passion on this one since if we bring up ten ideas and five of them are good then we're five good ideas ahead. He's my points system based on eight cars: winner-20 points, runner-up-15, semi's losers-10, quarters-5. Lose any earler than that: SOL. One (and only one) 5 point bonus for either a dead on dial or perfect light during the race. You cut either one and LOSE: no cupcake. You have missed the point of the divisional races. You just can't show up at any old race and start logging points. For example: you live in the Pittsburgh, PA area. So lets say you have Division One Slant Six races at the Mopar show at Englishtown, Chryslers at Carlisle ( South Mountain Dragway is only 15 minutes from there ), one of the East Coast Nostalgia Super Stock races at Atco, and piggyback an appropiate specialty meet at PIR (your home track). And maybe you run out to Columbus for the Chrysler Classic event outside your division. Thats five. You can race at twenty events if you want. You can only accumulate points from four, and you have to declare that you want them BEFORE time trials. Lets say you would runner up at your non-points race, there would be a blank spot where 15 points would have been for a points earner. As far as keeping track of points, I gotta believe SOMEBODY at each race can math in increments in fives and tens, add'em up and sending them to Seymour. As long as you pay your entry money like everyone else, I can't see having any problem getting the race promoters and track operators to let us race. One: we're kinda unique, so we're fun to watch. Two: every nook and kranny of the U.S. finds out about us. and Three: it's not like we're gonna show up with 64 cars or a dozen semi rigs so the impact on the race infrastructure is small. We're on the right track Paul. P.S. F-bodys rule!

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If you can't be good, at least be colorful

How will any of this encourage more people to join? What advantage does this have over the current system?

Very simple Mr. Guest. Lets say Zippy Fripowitz from Lake Freezeyrbutt New York has a slant powered racer. Lets say all the current Slant Six races are AT THE LEAST twelve hours or more from his house. ( Clay City, KY, the Carolinas, Ohio, etc ) If he could race three or four times during the year to tracks anywhere from a half hour to six or seven hours from his house he might be more inclinded to give it a whirl. If he does real good and is a top points earner in his division, then he would qualify to be the overall champ by only having to travel to ONE long distance race, and I thought about this after my last post, we could move it around every year, so one group wouldn't have to drive halfway around the world every year to attend. Or better yet have each of the divisions host the finals on a rotating basis. RICK

_________________
If you can't be good, at least be colorful

Maybe I missed something somewhere but are you guys suggesting that racers could earn points not racing against other slant 6 cars? In other words they could earn points at their local track or at any Mopar meet??

The divisonal idea has a lot of advantages the way I see it. Adding additional races is no longer a problem. If only 4 cars show up no problem. You only get 10 points per round anyway so to win a 5 round Clay city race would count more than winning a race in middleofnowhere Idaho. Idefinitelyly might generate more interest in other areas as long as you do a little homework and put the new races close to existing members either racers or people that frequent this board.

Then again we have to ask ourselves this...how many more racers can we really expect? This was discussed at one of the banquets.. it takes a really different kind of individual to play around with slant 6's so we have a small pool to draw from... How many of us are out there? Are there enough to really support all of these additional races? Motors are becoming harder to find and parts are being discontinued on a regular basis. Most people would just drop in a *cough* V8 instead of a 6. We seem to lose cars/racers as fast as we add them so our numbers seem to stay the same.

Just a few thoughts...keep them coming!

_________________
Nitrous cars are like old men on Viagra. Once the bottle is empty they are useless.
FJD