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who's interested in an aluminum head?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14452		 Page 8 of 11
Author:  Mel Ott [ Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Mel, is this the same car you drove on the street with 5.86 gears?
Well ... no its not the same engine. That was an Aluminum Slanter that
actually belonged to a friend. That was a joint fun thing (for street racing).
It was a matter of about 3 hours to pop the 273 HiPo out and bolt in the
Slanter for some street fun :D

The 225 I have now I started building in the late 70's .. I didn't even have
a body to put it in at the time. The reason I built it was I just really got
my nut off going against the Big Block etc. with a little Slanter.
You know ..." The little Train that could" :D
I picked up a really nice 62 Valiant around 1986, this engine is in that
body now. The car was in storage for the last 15 years, I'm back at it
now with re-newed interest.

As to templates for port matching.... I used the manifold gasket.
Just put some Blueing on the head, lay the gasket on the head and
hold firmly with a couple nuts and spacers on the mounting studs.
Then scribe each port in the blueing. Use a hand grinder and carefully
grind out the ports to match the scribed lines. Then use polishing wheels
(the cone type that mount on a mandrel) and polish the ports as far in
as you can get. Polish away all sharp edges inside the port and in the
combustion chamber. Its really quite easy, just use some common
sense... don't go too far. The same can be done with the intake manifold.
The thing to remember is the smoother the flow, the more flow you'll
get. Removing any bumps or imperfections in the ports will improve
flow.
Author:  Mel Ott [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:14 am ]
Post subject: 
However, it also means I can't afford to the time or money to experiment with things I know nothing about. Like many here, my Swinger is my daily driver, and I depend on it to get to and from work every day.

I understand and sympathize, back then I was married with 2 kids to
support. That is probably the main reason why I did most of my work
myself. I don't think I'm any smarter than most guys, I like to think
I'm about average intellagence. If you are really interested in what
you want to do, it just requires some study. My best advice is to
think and understand how and why the engine works. Then study the
part and see how you can make it better. You just need to realize these
parts were/are made by mass-production and there is usually room
for improvement.

When I don't know how to solve a problem, I'm not too proud to turn it over to a guy like you.

Naaaa ... Have some confidence in yourself, you can do this stuff.
I'm no pro. I'm just a 'Shade Tree' machanic that's taken a little more
time to study the problem.

So even if it's spendy, knowing that a cylinder head already flows great and weighs less right out of the box is better for me than ?? man-hours of me screwing up 2 or 3 heads in my garage, or at least not getting the full benefits compared to the time I put in. My wife and kids don't share my interest, so time spent in the garage is time away from them. I like to minimize that sacrifice when I can.

Don't over-estimate what one of these Aluminum heads would do for
you. The way I see it .... for example (you're Joe Average and want
better performance from your Street Cruiser/ Family car)
Lets say for $1500.00 you can get a total performance head ....
Now for about $50.00 I can go to Sears and buy an electric hand/pencil
grinder and do the porting and polishing myself. Lets say my head is
only about 60% to 70% as efficent as the Max Aluminum head.
Considering the money difference, its not hard to see what I'm going
to do.

All I'm saying is that, while this certainly board helps, nobody's out in my driveway with me at crunch-time. And if it means spending a few bucks more on guaranteed results, I'd consider it, in the same way I'd consider Edelbrock heads for a V8.

There are enough guy here with the know-how to do most anything you
want to do....... just post your question ... you'll get some good advice.
Then again... if those Edelbrock heads are the only thing that will make
you happy.... then thats the only way to go.


Guys like you and Sandy and his $500 T-5 conversion have a gift for creativity, ingenuity, and resourcefulness that some of us only aspire to have. It's very modest to think so, but some of your accomplishments might not be something that just anybody can do. In some cases, encouraging some of the less experienced members to dive into something that's over their heads could result in a vast expenditure of wasted money. And most shops aren't very sympathetic when your 40 year old car gets towed in because you tried to "modify" it and screwed something up.

Thats nagitive thinking ......... Have some confidence in yourself.
The saying .... "measure twice then cut" ..........
Think first before you grind or cut .........
You have something available now that wasn't even heard of back
when I was doing these things ... Its called the "Internet"

Back when I had my shop I depended on the guys that didn't want
to think for thenselves. And I didn't share my knowledge.
Thats how I made my money.
Now ... I'll share any bit of knowledge I have, just ask......
If spending a few bucks can get you to 60% or 70% of that Max Rocket
then thats the way I'd go.
My philosophy .... "Half a loaf is better than no rest at all" ;-)


Sorry for the rant. Again, I applaud the more experienced members, who can build, rebuild, fabricate, diagnose, and design. I'm always trying to learn from you within the resources I have (mental and financial). Thanks for being my inspiration.

VM[/quote]
Author:  panic [ Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
"installed Hemi valves"


???

Dodge 241" hemi?
Author:  Mel Ott [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
"installed Hemi valves"


???

Dodge 241" hemi?
No.... 426 Hemi .......
Actually IIRC these valves came from a junk set of 'AAR' heads.

Don't try installing these valves unless you own the valve grinding
equipment yourself (or if you have deep pockets).
Author:  featherduster76 [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mel Ott wrote: Don't over-estimate what one of these Aluminum heads would do for
you. The way I see it .... for example (you're Joe Average and want
better performance from your Street Cruiser/ Family car)
Lets say for $1500.00 you can get a total performance head ....
Now for about $50.00 I can go to Sears and buy an electric hand/pencil
grinder and do the porting and polishing myself. Lets say my head is
only about 60% to 70% as efficent as the Max Aluminum head.
Considering the money difference, its not hard to see what I'm going
to do.


Hmmm, Now there's a man after my own heart. Nothing like good knowledge to make power. And cost effective too... :D
Author:  vynn3 [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
My best advice is to think and understand how and why the engine works. Then study the part and see how you can make it better. You just need to realize these parts were/are made by mass-production and there is usually room for improvement.
Of course there is. But let me ask you, how did you figure out what works and what doesn't? You mentioned you were hotrodding slants back in the 60's. That means you have at least 40 YEARS of experience playing with engines and experimenting, something many on the board do not. Are you going to be here beside me to help if/when something goes wrong? The internet is great, but like a book, forum advice only goes so far, and it's no substitute for experience. Should we of lesser mechanical ability be out there gaining our own experience? YES. But I think it's wisdom, not a lack of confidence, that tells me to be careful as to what projects I should or shouldn't tackle. And I'm thinking that, whether it's a 1950's era engineer or a professional machinist like Mike Jeffries, they STILL know WAY more about cylinder head flow design than I do right now. And if I'm willing to pay for it, there's nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
Naaaa ... Have some confidence in yourself, you can do this stuff. I'm no pro. I'm just a 'Shade Tree' machanic that's taken a little more time to study the problem.
I've studied this stuff for years and years. It's STILL no substitute for experience. And experience has often cost me more money than simply taking it to a pro in the first place.
Quote:
Don't over-estimate what one of these Aluminum heads would do for you. The way I see it .... for example (you're Joe Average and want better performance from your Street Cruiser/ Family car)
Lets say for $1500.00 you can get a total performance head ....
Now for about $50.00 I can go to Sears and buy an electric hand/pencil
grinder and do the porting and polishing myself. Lets say my head is
only about 60% to 70% as efficent as the Max Aluminum head.
Considering the money difference, its not hard to see what I'm going
to do.
A fine argument, but can you verify that your head porting is 60 or 70% as efficient as a new aluminum would be? I don't doubt your porting expertise after doing this for 40 years, but aren't you just guessing? What about the weight savings? I already own a dremel tool, but I have a choice between spending many, many hours porting a head to achieve questionable results (since I don't have a dyno or experience), or buy a head that's definitely better that what I'm starting with. The same applies to sending an iron head to a pro. That's several hours that could've been spent with my wife and daughter, or I can write someone else a check. We all make our own choices — oftentimes, mine is to spend time with my family, even if it costs me more money. To me they're worth it.
Quote:
There are enough guy here with the know-how to do most anything you want to do....... just post your question ... you'll get some good advice. Then again... if those Edelbrock heads are the only thing that will make you happy.... then thats the only way to go.
Much as I love and support this board (and make contributions to back that statement up), it's of limited help when I'm out in the driveway with a problem. Sometimes it's impossible to accurately describe a problem, and the computer won't help me lift and align a cast iron cylinder head when I'm replacing it.

Quote:
Thats nagitive thinking ......... Have some confidence in yourself. The saying .... "measure twice then cut" .......... Think first before you grind or cut ......... You have something available now that wasn't even heard of back when I was doing these things ... Its called the "Internet"

Back when I had my shop I depended on the guys that didn't want to think for thenselves. And I didn't share my knowledge. Thats how I made my money. Now ... I'll share any bit of knowledge I have, just ask...... If spending a few bucks can get you to 60% or 70% of that Max Rocket then thats the way I'd go. My philosophy .... "Half a loaf is better than no rest at all" ;-)
I apologize for leaving you with the impression that I'm a timid loser who's deathly afraid to touch anything under his hood. I've done about 80% of the repairs and modifications to my cars for the last several years. But just to reiterate, I've also ended up screwing stuff up that was expensive from time to time, and it wasn't from a lack of planning. From that, I've learned to be cautious before jumping into more ambitious projects, and like most people who have made mistakes, I'd like to prevent some of the younger and less experienced members from making the same ones. I'm all about learning from mistakes, but when they cost money...

So when I hop in and spend hours porting my own cylinder head only to hit a water jacket, can I send you or .org a bill for my time and materials? I think not.

Don't shortchange yourself. I have the utmost respect for your many years of experience, and appreciate more than you know your willingness to share your knowledge with all of us on this forum. The same goes for everyone here. My only request is that you not be so quick to condemn some of us without your experience and resources who might be willing to scrape together a few more bucks to save some time and/or get a proven product.

Thanks for listening.

VM
Author:  slantzilla [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:

No.... 426 Hemi .......
Actually IIRC these valves came from a junk set of 'AAR' heads.

Don't try installing these valves unless you own the valve grinding
equipment yourself (or if you have deep pockets).

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Author:  sandy in BC [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dennis: are you saying there is not even enough room in a slant chamber to put small Chev V8 valves (1.72 + 1.50)with out radiussing the chambers,,,,and that a Hemi intake valve at over 2" absolutly will not fit ......even without the exhaust valve ?......I thotso....
Author:  Mel Ott [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
@VYNN3
I'm not saying you have to the work yourself ... if you don't feel
comefortable doing these things then by all means don't.
What I'm saying is... for those that are willing to experiment and
take a chance, then give it a try. I learned what I know from 'Trial
and Error', I've made many mistakes but I always asked myself
this question " Well A-Hole did you learn anything from that".
I've never had a flow bench. My E.T. slips from the drag strip told
me how much improvement (or not :( ) was made.
If I don't make a mistake now and then .. I'm not trying hard enough.

@Slantzilla
Do I detect skepticism ???
Author:  Mel Ott [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Dennis: are you saying there is not even enough room in a slant chamber to put small Chev V8 valves (1.72 + 1.50)with out radiussing the chambers,,,,and that a Hemi intake valve at over 2" absolutly will not fit ......even without the exhaust valve ?......I thotso....
The heads of the valves have to be turned down, I left about .030
between the intake and exaust valve heads.
You also have to shorten the stems, you end up using the 2 groove
keepers on the intake and Chevy 1 groove keepers on the exaust.
Then theres the matter of knoching the cylinder walls to allow the
valves to open (they won't fit in the cylinder).
As I said... if you don't know what you are doing .. then DON"T try it.
Author:  slantzilla [ Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Naw, I am just trying to figure out if they are Hemi valves or AAR valves. There is quite a bit of difference. :shock:
Author:  Mel Ott [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Naw, I am just trying to figure out if they are Hemi valves or AAR valves. There is quite a bit of difference. :shock:
Well ... :D .... You're taxing my memory now......
I've never done a set of 426 Hemi heads, or a set of AAR heads
for that matter. Actually I never seen the heads the valves came from.
My son aquired them from one of his friends.
As far as are they Hemi Or AAR valves, IIRC the AAR valves were
somewhat modified Hemi valves to fit the special heads.
But reguardless, for application I used them, it really doesn't make
much difference. It was just easier to say Hemi valves.
Or .... I have some 'Really Big Valves' in this head :D
Author:  sick6 [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
........I got my valves from a 360 and a 318. keepin' it in the family!


I still don't know why this thread is alive. I don't say that to be vindictive or anything, it just doesn't sound like anyone has the cash or the time and equipment to do it.

Just allot of wishfull thinking.
Author:  slantzilla [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I still don't know why this thread is alive. I don't say that to be vindictive or anything, it just doesn't sound like anyone has the cash or the time and equipment to do it.
Because people need a dream to hang on to. :shock:
Author:  volare320hp [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  yeah i would be interested
i would be interested in the head. it would be good for streetablity and affordable too.
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