Hey Mr. H,
You don't think it should be put off till the Permatex Ultra Black Gasket Maker is cured? Actually, there's no rush to get the deed done.

As a Sunday Mid Morning Update, I am pleased to announce that a break is being taken after having gotten Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine's completely refurbished and NEWLY Gasketed Oil Pan installed. Was out at 8:30 a.m. The weather was PERFECT! Not too hot. Not too cold. Not too bright. Not too dim.

The Permatex Ultra Black Gasket Maker was put on the Oil Pan Flanges, and the Pan went right into place.

Got it secured with three Bolts to hold it in place.

Then the other twenty-one Bolts were started.

They were then snugged down starting with the middle Bolts on each Side and working to the ends alternating sides.

Per the instruction for the installation, the Bolts were snugged up and are now being let sit for one hour while the Permatex Ultra Black Gasket Maker sets up a bit.

Am going to go out at noon and torque the Bolts to 17 Foot Pounds (found this specification by a DuckDuckGo search).

The whole installation went without a hitch. No cross threaded Bolts. They all started and went right in with just fingers thanks to having run a tap through the Threaded Holes in the Engines Oil Pan Gasket Flange to clean them.

Am please with the way that it went.

Had a premonition that it was going to go well and had no trepidations about doing it.

The installation looks GREAT.

The Oil Pan is painted Gold (that was the rattle can here with the most paint in it) and the Valve Cover was also painted Gold.

The NEW Bolts are Dorman and they are also Gold colored.

While looking at the Dodge Van Manuals here (which, incidentally doesn't have the Oil Pan Bolt Torque Specs) found a small notation that said: "Make sure that the Pick Up Screen contacts the bottom of the Oil Pan." If THAT is correct, then THAT might be the reason that the Oil Pressure was low! Remember, there was about a 5/16" thick "plate" of pure Carbon in the bottom of the Oil Pan from Lorrie having sat for sixteen year. That "plate" of Carbon MIGHT have been restricting the amount of oil that the Oil Pump capable of sucking up. Too little Oil to the Oil Pump would result in low Oil Pressure!

Anyone want to bet that now that the Oil Pan is perfectly clean, that the Oil Pressure won't be 55 PSI?

If it is, then the RIGHT thing to do is to clean and reinstall the OLD Oil Pump. That could be done with hardly a hitch. And then Lorrie would have a brand NEW Oil Pump as a spare should it ever be needed. AND Lorrie's Cam Shaft would be VERY happy, right Mr. SS?

Anyway, the rest of the day is going to be spent getting all of the details taken care of.

Am going to let Lorrie sit till tomorrow before starting her up.

Will let you all know how the remainder of the day goes late this afternoon.

Be comfy.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

don't forget the oil before starting engine

Hey Mr. M,

Right. For a report on today's progress, see the Sunday Late Afternoon Update coming up next.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey All,
Late Sunday Afternoon Update:

Got Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine's Oil Pan torqued down. Did it in steps. Got all twenty-four Bolts tightened to 12, then 15, then 17 foot/pounds. Started with the middle Bolts working both ways to the ends.

Got the Drain Plug installed.

Got the NEW Hydraulic Return Hose connected to the Oil Pan.

Got the Engine to Transmission Bracket installed.

Got the Valve Cover re-installed.

Got the Dip Stick installed.

Got the Fan Belt installed and properly tensioned.

Reattached the Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve.

Reattached the Oil Fill Cap.

Reattached the Distributor Vacuum Line to the Carburetor.

Will go out tomorrow morning and put in four quarts of 10W30 Valvoline through the PCV Port. That way some will run down from the front of the Engine to the back where the Valve Train is. Will check for leaks. There will be none.

Am going to put a quart of 10W30 Valvoline into the Stand Pipe of the Frantz Oil Cleaner which is connected unimpeded to the Pressure Side of the Oil Pump. This will prime the Oil Pump.

Will put in a NEW Frantz Filter Element.

Need to connect the Negative Battery Cable, and Lorrie will be ready to start.

Will start the Engine and check for leaks. There will be none.

Will bring the Engine up to operating temperature and then check the Oil Level. Will add till it shows "Full".

Will let you all know how THAT goes.

Am counting on seeing 55 PSI on the NEW Oil Pressure Gauge.

Anyway, am beat! Am going to take a shower. Am going to have some dinner. Am going to put me on the couch for the night.

It has been a GREAT day.

Hope you all are doing well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Keep us posted!

Hey Reed,
But of course!

Had absolutely no trepidations last night about Lorrie starting and being just fine this morning. Was really tired. Woke up this morning and am quite sore all over from maneuvering around under Lorrie yesterday, doing all the stuff that needed doing under there. My hands are especially sore from pushing and pulling on Wrenches and Ratchets. But the installation went REALLY good, and it all looks REALLY nice.

The NEW Hydraulic Hoses are MORE industrial looking than were the OLD Hydraulic Hoses.

The pan looks GREAT with it's shiny NEW Paint and NEW Gold Bolts.

The Engine to Transmission Brace looks really good with its NEW Black Paint.

The Valve Cover looks GREAT with its NEW Paint.

And since the Starter was recently rebuilt, it is not hogging all the voltage. As a result, the Big Three HEI System makes Lorrie start right up.

Now if she will just put up 55 PSI Oil Pressure, she will be happy. I will be happy, and hopefully she will return to her pre-1996 reliability status.

Did you notice the last postulation of why the Oil Pressure had dropped? It was noticed in the Dodge Van Manual that it said: "Be sure the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube's Screen is right at the bottom of the Oil Pan." Well, nothing has been done with the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube, so it probably IS right at the bottom of the Oil Pan. IF that is so, then the build up of Carbon in the bottom of the Oil Pan COULD have been restricting how much Oil the Oil Pump was able to suck up. Now that the Oil Pan is completely clean, THAT restriction will be gone and the Oil Pump will be able to pick up the maximum amount of Oil of which it is capable. Hopefully, THAT was the problem, and hopefully THAT has been remedied by having the Oil Pan immaculately clean on the inside..

The dropping the Oil Pan was somewhat of an ordeal, but a GREAT learning experience, and I'm REALLY happy that it got done.

Am hoping that the care taken to make sure it seals at the Gaskets didn't miss anything.

Have to say that I was somewhat surprised at how tight 17 foot pounds of torque turned out to be.

Am going to be out about 8:00 a.m. to start work on Lorrie.

It's not very cold here this morning, though it is supposed to get down to 21 degrees tonight. So have got just one whole day to do everything to make Lorrie roadworthy.

If everything is copacetic after running Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine, then there is the re-installation of the Removable Floor Board, the installation of the Brake Cylinder Hatch, the installation of the Engine Cabinetry, and the getting of everything that isn't essential to Lorrie's operation cleaned out of her cavernous Cargo Bay.

Then after satisfying myself that she is going to be alright, am going to have to, after this next cold snap, make it to Livingston Medical Center for a couple of comprehensive Blood Test in preparation for the February 6, 2014 meeting in Houston for the twice yearly appointment with the Liver MDeities at the Liver Center.

I still don't trust Lorrie to make that trip and the lady that cuts my hair loans me her NEW Toyota for the journey.

Will let you know how everything goes.

Hang in there.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I agree that the layer of buildup on the bottom of the pan could restrict flow, but if you were getting over 40 PSI of oil pressure then I do not think the flow was restricted much, if at all. It will be interesting to see what you find when you start the motor up.

Hey All,
Monday Morning Update:

Went out at 9:00 a.m. and put four quarts of 10W30 Valvoline Oil in through the PCV Port.

Put as much Oil into the the Frantz Oil Cleaner System Stand Pipe as it would hold and let it go down into the Oil Pump. Put some air pressure on it to help make it go.

Put a NEW Filter Element in the Frantz Oil Cleaner Canister, and put the Canister on the Frantz Base.

Checked to see if all the Hydraulic Hose Connections were tight.

Hooked up the Negative Pole of the Battery. Gave the Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor a shot of Start Fluid.

Turned on the Run Switch.

Activated the Start Switch.

Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine started right up.

Engine immediately settled into a 550 RPM idle.

Oil pressure at idle went to 48 PSI.

Let it idle while checking for leaks. There were none.

Let Lorrie warm up to 160 degrees.

Revved up the Engine and could see 54 PSI on the NEW Oil Pressure Gauge but the Engine had to be running MUCH faster than it would ever be able to go on the road.

Oil Pressure on the highway will be at about 50 PSI which is just fine.

Checked the Frantz Oil Cleaner Canister. It was HOT.

Checked the Oil Pan. It too was HOT.

Engine sounded good running. Turbine smooth. When revving it WAY up to see what the MAXIMUM Oil Pressure would get to, there were some "crack/pop" backfires through the Carburetor, but they stopped after about six or eight of them. Suspect some pre-ignition from carbon in the Combustion Chambers.

After shutting the Engine down, checked the Oil Level on the Dip Stick and there is about 3/8" showing on the tip, but there is much of the Oil still up in the Engine. Am going to let it sit and settle and will check it later.

The Oil that it takes to saturate the Frantz Filter Element is considerable. Will probably have to add about a quart to get it to the "Full" mark on the Dip Stick.

Restarted the Engine and just let it idle while cleaning out all the material and equipment. Just sitting and idling for about twenty minutes, the temperature went up to 170 degrees.

The wind from the North kicked up, and it is another Texas Blue Norther starting. Supposed to get down to 27 degrees tonight. Supposed to get down to 21 degrees tomorrow night and is supposed to snow again.

Am going to go out tomorrow morning and see if Lorrie will start in that low a temperature. Am expecting that she will now that everything is in order.

Did one last check for leaks and found a single drip under the Right Rear Corner of the Oil Pan. May have to go back and re-tighten all the Oil Pan Bolts now that the Engine has gotten hot. Hopefully this will do away with that single drip spot.

Am really tired and sore all over from being under Lorrie yesterday and the day before and the day before, and the day before... My hands and fingers especially ache. But we nonetheless got the task accomplished.

Want to thank everyone for the responses and comments during this whole caper. They were VERY much appreciated. Am feeling quite confident that Lorrie is going to be just fine for a while. Still don't trust her enough to take off for California or New Orleans like I did back before 1996. But maybe she will straighten up and earn my confidence again.

After doing all that was done on Lorrie, am feeling a bit more confident in my health, strength and endurance. Am thinking that I may just tackle rebuilding Ms. American's Front Suspension and Steering. Would LIKE to have two operational vehicles here.

Anyway, everything is back to where there is transportation here when needed. Am going to wait out this next cold period and then take Lorrie for a road-test.

Will let you all know how that goes.

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement.

Take excellent care.

JC

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Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

JC,

So the oil pressure reading is with the old oil pump?

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

good to hear...

Hey Mr. AT,
No. The NEW Oil Pump is installed.

Am thinking that the Dip Stick Tube is clogged. The Dip Stick goes in all the way. When it is pulled there doesn't seem to be any Oil on it. Am thinking that there is stuff in the Dip Stick Tube that is wiping the Oil off of the Dip Stick when it is removed.

Am going to remove the Dip Stick Tube to clean it out. Lorrie has a little over five quarts of Oil in her, so am not concerned about not having enough Oil, but would like to see where the level it on the Dip Stick.

Anyway, just went out and turned on Lorrie's Run Switch and hit the Start Switch and she fired up instantaneously!

Just shut her right back down and am letting her sit. When she is cooled off completely, will pull the Dip Stick Tube to see what is going on with THAT.

Hope YOU are doing well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

Hey Mr. AT,
That is just ANOTHER theory/postulation about what caused the low Oil Pressure.
We may NEVER know what caused it. If the OLD Oil Pump were re-installed and it put up only 40 PSI then we could say for sure that it was the OLD Oil Pump that was the culprit. May do that some day when I feel like doing it.
Well, as you know by now, everything went back to being the way it was before the Oil Pressure dropped.

Am doing stuff little by little. Don't need to get out anytime soon. Am cleaning stuff out of Lorrie and will be installing her Floor Board and Engine Cabinetry in due time.

I'll hang in here if you'll hang in there.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

I'm glad that your now happy with the oil pressure,I doubt any layer of crud in the sump was causing you any problems.....IF it was your oil pressure would be good at low rpm, but when the oil flow demand increased with rpm the restriction would have caused you oil pressure issues,it didn't. You would have also seen a "witness mark" where the oil pickup was embedded in the crud. It was only 1/8" of junk in there,that's not much for an engine that was sitting around for years. A good flush and maybe running on diesel oil and REGULAR oil changes would have cleaned it out. The old oil pump had good oil pressure,it held at 40psi from memory,that was at idle and at rpm,to me this indicates you have no clearance issues,if the pump was worn it would have low pressure at idle and increase with rpm,there is absolutely zero issues with that pressure,if you wanted to see higher oil pressure then as duster idiot suggested you could have just shimmed the spring in the relief valve .
I'm glad YOU are now satisfied that the engine is fine, it was a lot of work for you. All the best.

Hey Mr. SS,
There is so much that is NOT know still. Will post a list of questions at the end of this post.

It was gratifying to see the NEW Oil Pressure Gauge indicate over 50 PSI. It made me smile. But everything is STILL not EXACTLY right. Little indications that something "strange" is occurring deep inside Lorrie's innards. Don't think that it's anything fatal or even serious, but I'm so attuned to these two old vehicles that I can just "tell" when something isn't quite as it SHOULD be.
The oil pressure issue was that at idle the Oil Pressure Gauge would show 40 PSI. But when the Oil Flow demand increased with RPMs, it STILL wouldn't put up more than 40 PSI. You don't consider THAT an Oil Pressure Issue?
Actually, there MAY have been a "witness mark" but I just didn't notice it. Wasn't looking for anything like that at the time.
Actually, there was about a 1/16" thick layer of what seemed to be oil soaked soot on top of a layer of "hard", compacted Carbon about 1/4" to 5/16ths of an inch thick that got broken out of the Oil Pan with a Putty Knife when it was being cleaned.


I personally don't have THAT kind of experience with these old Engines to know what is normal after sitting for as long as Lorrie did (sixteen years). But it took more than a year for the churning of the Crank Shaft and the roiling of the Oil in the Oil Pan to finally soften the Carbon layer in the bottom of the Oil Pan enough to where it was once again picked up and brought into suspension in the Oil.
Never occurred to me that this would happen until it actually DID start to happen. And when THAT occurred, what has been being done to Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine got done. Am feeling good about having done what was done. The Engine NEEDED the attention, and I made a net gain by having the experience of having done this.
There would be one way to test out this theory and that is to take the OLD Oil Pump apart, clean it, put it back together, make a NEW Gasket for it, and reinstall it on Lorrie's might 225 Slant Six Engine and see what pressure it puts up.
Can't definitively debate that with you. 40 PSI might have been perfectly alright. Still the Oil Pressure USED to be 55 PSI, and all of a sudden it wasn't. And that concerned me. Along with the drop in Oil Pressure, there was a "different" feel in the way Lorrie drove. She would die at low RPMs. Had an occasional slight "draggy" feeling. She was NOT her usual happy self.
I read a whole thread here concerning the shimming of the Relief Valve. Someone made the comment (I'd have to look for it again) that the Relief Valve is there just in case the Oil Pressure gets too high. And that shimming it would make it to where it wouldn't relieve the pressure until an even higher pressure was achieved. But that shimming the Pressure Relief Valve Spring doesn't do anything to increase a low Oil Pressure situation.
Well, as mentioned earlier in this post, it STILL isn't EXACTLY right, but it will do for now.
But we got it done and THAT'S what counts. It was, as usual, a labor of love for me. Lorrie and I have been together since 1975. That' more than half my life time. Am sure that Lorrie is going to outlast me. She is a wonderful old vehicle. Big, gentle, peaceful, and unusual to boot.
And thank YOU for your sharing of your wisdom in this matter. And for keeping things on track instead of letting my mechnochondria run rampant.

So here are some questions that have come up:

This morning, put two quarts of 10W30 Valvoline Motor Oil into the Engine through the PCV Valve Port. Did this so that the Oil would run downhill to the back of the Cylinder Head. Then put two more quarts into the Engine through the Oil Filler Port. Then put about 1/3rd of a quart into the Stand Pipe on the Frantz Oil Cleaner which is directly connected to the Oil Pump. This was done to prime the Oil Pump. Put the rest of that bottle of Oil into the Oil Filler Port. So at this point, there are five quarts of Oil that has been put in. When the Oil Level was checked, it didn't show anything on the Dip Stick.

The Dodge Van Manual here says the 225 Slant Six Engine has a 5 quart Oil capacity. So Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six now has five quarts of Oil in her Oil Pan. But nothing is showing on the Dip Stick. Remember I asked if Oil could be being trapped in volume above the Lifter and up under the Valve Cover? Well, knowing that Lorrie had five quarts of Oil in her made me feel safe enough to start the Engine, which I did. And she started right up, put up 54 PSI of Oil Pressure and ran good. Idled well. Warmed up. The Oil Pan got hot. The Frantz Oil Cleaner got hot. AND the Valve Cover got hot!!! I don't ever recall the Valve Cover getting hot, but then again, I never made the effort to notice that. Plus there are no Oil leaks.

So after bringing the Engine up to operating temperature, it was shut off and let sit. Then after an hour or so, checked the Oil Level. There was about 1/4" showing on the tip of the Dip Stick.

So I added another quart of Oil.

It didn't do anything to raise the level on the Dip Stick.

At this point, am thinking that the inside of the Dip Stick is crudded up and that it is wiping off any Oil on the Dip Stick, so I remove the Dip Stick Tube and ran a piece of wire through it. Then ran the Dip Stick through it. Nothing came out.

Don't know why there's no Oil showing on the Dip Stick.

So with the Dip Stick Tube removed, I put the Dip Stick into the Dip Stick Tube Hole so that the top of the Dip Stick is about where it would be if the Dip Stick Tube was in place and pulled it out and there was Oil up to "Add a Quart" Mark. So I added another Quart. Checked it without the Dip Stick Tube in place and it showed "Full".

Put the Dip Stick Tube back into place and checked it again, and there is oil just on the tip of the Dip Stick!

Am going to remove the Dip Stick Tube again and put a piece of wire through it. Am then going to pull a piece of Dental Floss through it. Am then going to tie the Dental Floss to a piece of cord and pull it though the Dip Stick Tube. Am then going to tie one end of the Cord to something and holding the other end of the cord am going to run the Dip Stick Tube back and forth to clean it out REALLY good. Am going to see if THAT makes a difference.

So here is a QUESTION: How far below the Oil Pan Gasket Flange Seam should the Oil Level be in a Slant Six Engine?

From having the Oil Pan off, and looking at the underside of the Rotating Assembly, it was noticed that the Crank doesn't come down below the Oil Pan Gasket Flange on the Block, so the Crank Shaft and Rod Caps never dip into the Oil. But the Oil shouldn't be above the Gasket Level which is lowest at the Front and the Rear of the Oil Pan.

Am thinking that maybe Lorrie being a Postal Van, that she might have an over-sized Oil Pan. But don't know this for sure, and don't have another Oil Pan with which to compare it.

Another QUESTION: Should the Valve Cover be getting hot like the Oil Pan?

Another QUESTION: How is the Distributor and Oil Pump Gear lubricated? Does Oil just get splashed on it? Or is there a definite supply of Oil going to it.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Anyway, thanks for any information.

It's supposed to get down to 25 degrees here tonight. Got to go bring in the Marantas (Prayer Plants) so that they don't freeze.

Hope you all are doing well.

JC

_________________
Lorrie Van Haul - 1967 Dodge - P200 Post Office Vehicle - 225 Slant Six - Torqueflite A727 Automatic Transmission - Right Hand Drive Steering - Big Three HEI System - Frantz Oil Cleaner System - Bendix Stromberg Model W Carburetor

OK,the oil pressure relief valve typically operates at all times to regulate oil pressure,it is not some kind of emergency blow off valve. A good engine would have the valve open a little at idle and as rpm increases the valve opens farther to maintain the oil pressure at whatever setting the valve is adjusted for. Most people don't bother adjusting oil pressure relief valves mainly because engines are usually given a wide range of tolerances for oil pressure,my guess is if a slant had 10psi at idle and anything over 35 at operating speeds its just fine. The fact your old pump maintained a constant 40 psi at all times indicates to me that it would be possible to raise the pressure with the spring shimming that duster idiot mentioned.I'm a relative new by here,but I have read many posts from both Agressive Ted and Duster Idiot,Ive NEVER seen a post that wasn't spot on.
The valve cover will get hot,very hot,its attached to the cylinder head,the heart of the combustion process and exhaust gas removal and is cooled my very to water.
The old pump maintaining 40 psi at all stages is just fine,NOT an indicator of anything but a good pump that could be adjusted by the above procedure
Whatever the engine used to indicate with the old gage is irrelevant really,it could have read anything and by the sound of it that was exactly what it did,cold weather,sticky gages you need to tap to get to move,its simply not reliable,trust your new gage.
The gears get lubricated basically by splash feed,there is oil getting thrown about everywhere inside the engine,there was a mod that supplies more oil to the area but you don't need to do it,you have no wear issues on your engine in fact a lower oil pressure reduces the loads on the gears substantially.
Your oil level problems are probably a combination of things,I did read up on the toilet paper filters, people seem to replace the elements regularly then add another quart so so of oil,in a way they are probably changing the oil by stages, but basically your 5 quart engine will be a 6 quart system now. Then you had a completely dry sump,empty oil galleries,filter,hoses to the TP filter etc etc. throw another quart at that.so were up to around 7 quarts of nice clean,clear oil. It's very easy to have difficulty reading clean oil on some dipsticks the oil tends to not want to "stick" for want of a better word. But,assuming the dipstick and tube are the correct ones for you engine I'd make sure you have a decent indication on it ,if the dipstick fits in the tube I doubt its blocked.