Slant Six Forum
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Al vs Fe
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=57103		 Page 8 of 13
Author:  Tim Keith [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:14 am ]
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Earl Edgerton built two F-head conversions for a Dodge flathead. His cost was about $6,500 each. I think he uses one of the heads on a '35 Dodge truck daily driver. A low production volume slant six head would be like a family heirloom that gets passed down to the grand kids. Earl builds other popular motor parts that he sells from his web site, but there is no market for the F-head at such a high price.

There is a lot of stuff for the Ford banger A and B motors, five main blocks with billet cranks for $10,000, high prices like that, and there are people who buy the low volume pieces. Some of the costly banger upgrades only allow the Model A to go 70 MPH, but there is a market for the parts. The is no single aftermarket OHV head for the banger, there are lots of ways its been done over the years.

Do it as a labor of love. Tell people your uncle LeRoy worked at Highland Park and found it in the dumpster :) Have fun. We don't own Porsches - most of us don't. Think of it being in Jay Leno's collection
Author:  Dart270 [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:00 am ]
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Dennis, you have nailed it all right there. Anyone try something like this should expect to lose not a small amount of money on the whole thing, and maybe be pleasantly surprised if they don't. Yes, you can call me crazy for even talking about this...

Slant on,
Lou
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:22 am ]
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I agree, Slantzilla is right.

Scott, If you would follow through And get one set up I bet some folks would begin to buy.. but of course it is a limited market.
I know that the Costs are what holds these types of projects up.. No one will make money on these it's a labor of love.

I have over $1000 in The ruster head when all said and done. so $1500 for a new aluminum casting or billet is cool with me.

Greg
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  CNC-Dude
Sounds like CNC-Dude is the closest to making a limited production Al head we have available now. CNC-Dude, be patient with us, maybe the price point for making that investment isn't too far away. Certainly, if my ship comes in, I'll sink money into this project.

I like the laser weld addition idea, I was going to bring up 3D printing (that came up in this thread) but I didn't know they did it in metal or if they did it would be durable enough. I have a colleague in Germany who does cold spray, ultrasonic addition of materials, they make metal gears that hold up. I'll ask him about it. They make pretty detailed parts, like 3D printing. Maybe I could get the German government to make a prototype for us...

brian
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:27 am ]
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How many of the original aluminum heads are left? Magnate's went to Australia years ago, does Doug still have any? They used to pop up for sale now and then.

IIRC, Doug and Steve built an all aluminum engine and tested it against an all iron one in the same car. They ran the same. :lol:

One other small thing you have to remember about an aluminum head, it is not just a bolt-on and go. You have to buy pistons to go with it, camshaft, better exhaust, better intake, etc.. Soon your $3500 head has you down $6000 and you may or may not see any improvement. :shock:

There's a reason you're seeing so many blower and turbo cars built. :D
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  that makes sense...
One of my underlying assumptions is that if one builds an Al SL6 that there are benefits to reap besides weight. Today's engines, with direct injection and so forth are amazing things. My 3.6L DI V6 in my CTS has 307hp, probably weighs a fraction of what my slant weighs, and gets 25 mpg on the highway. I'm sure there must be an aftermarket computer chip that'll get 350 hp out of it, just plug n play (that reminds me my warranty has run out..better start looking for that chip). Of course it would likely cost $6-7k to replace it, so we're in the same ballpark as our theoretical Al slant system.

So, I leave it to the experts on this forum to tell us if it's worth building such a monster in slant six form. To me, it seems worth the effort (and money if we have it) just for the interest we have in this engine design, and, simply because we can. How many iron units are out there, do we have enough to last us for the next 20-30 years? Think of the future Sl6 enthusiasts looking fondly back (as we do now on the early Al blocks) at the "iron days" before the new fangled Al - DI, overhead cam, 350 hp version was built. I'm a dreamer to be sure...

brian
Author:  Old6rodder [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:34 pm ]
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I don't have a horse in this particular race, as my racing thing's period mods on a period engine, rather than modern mods on same.
That said, for me it'd be worth the price just to run something sufficiently uncommon as that on my street car.
Always have enjoyed the "Whazzat?" factor (one of the reasons I'm into slants of course). 8)

Now a repro aluminum block, since they were extant then, :twisted: .
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I guess people just aren't listening or don't care that someone in their midst has the financial resources and all the mechanical resources to do this, and is also willing too.
If you have the money, the know how, the equipment, and the machining capabilities, then I would say just put all the cards on the table. Figure up a cost per raw cylinder casting, cost to machine, cost to install valves, guides and springs,...etc., along with whatever else is needed to make it work. That will be the real final cost. Then post that figure and ask how many are really ready to drop that kind of cash.

I think your stuff looks really cool, but I for one knew that I would likely never spend the kind of money it will cost to get one on my car. 95% of us can go as fast as we want with an existing iron head. Not trying to discourage , just be factual. That is why I did not comment much at the banquet when you had them there. Others who were much more serious should drive that conversation. I personally think a race head that can be streetable is the way to go. And it will need to flow substantially better than one of Mike's heads right out of the box. Just 2 more cents.

I am about to find out if there is enough of a market for what I think is one of the coolest and rarest pieces ever made for our cars. The Hyperpak manifolds. I am not at all sure that there is, and the next several months will tell the tale. With them we are only talking about $650

Rick
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I do manufacture an aluminum race head for the Chevy inline 6 and have patterns for the following, several intake manifolds, valve covers, 2 pc timing covers along with a 4 cylinder Chevy version of those same parts along with an aluminum race block pattern. I took the 6 cylinder head to the Slant 6 banquet a year ago or so to show those guys how easily I could modify my patterns to make a Slant 6 version. I guess people just aren't listening or don't care that someone in their midst has the financial resources and all the mechanical resources to do this, and is also willing too.
Then…go for it! There's no doubt you make awesome stuff, and if a good aluminum slant-6 head appears that offers real benefits for realistically affordable money, people will surely buy it, so what prevents you doing it?
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's a sizable undertaking to say the least even with all the resources in place, and for myself if I were to make a one off head it would be a billet one. But I wanted to see how realistic it would be to make a cast head for a broader market. And if the previous discussions were genuine and not just wishful thinking from the Slant guys before I stepped it up to that level.

Rick, your right about the output level of an aluminum head, it would be defeating the purpose if the new head didn't at least start off performance-wise where the highest potential of the iron head leaves off, and then have much more potential beyond that. That for sure would help propel the Slant to new heights it has never been able to achieve before both N/A and with forced induction.

There can also be many options to the end user just like with other aftermarket heads, they can be purchased machined but bare or at any stage up to fully ported. Even raw cast for the DIY'er is possible.
Author:  kesteb [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:22 pm ]
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Who ended up with the Argentinian racing head? This would be a "proven" modification. Use that for the pattern and the price point becomes more reasonable.

Only $500 more for a "better" head, compared to a fully decked out stocker. Now you will start to get the interest in buying one.
Author:  slantzilla [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:03 am ]
Post subject: 
The Argentinian head is in Minnesota.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Again, $1500 would be a no brainer for a hard core racer and some not so hard core racers I believe. But can it be done for that? $2000, $2500? And how many do you want committed to buy one at that price break? It is like the proverbial catch 22. Some people want a head, but can't buy a head, because there is no head. Some people can make a head but, but won't make a head, because no one is buying a head! :lol: :lol: A new head that could flow big numbers right out of the box would be very sweet. And I sure like the looks of that injection system even it it doesn't work to well on our engine.

Rick
Quote:
The Argentinian head is in Minnesota.
Has it ever made it to a flow bench?
Author:  Team Green [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:19 am ]
Post subject: 
In 1996 when we sold roller rockers we sold more than we thought. I ran a single ad in Mopar Action and recieved 80+ responses. We sold 19 sets and most went to non racers or they never got their project finished. I was told we might sell 1 or 2 sets because they cost too much. I even had Clifford call me wanting me to send them a set to see if they could sell them.
You never know who is out in the slanted nation.

I have a MoPar Everham head if you need chamber and port design, I'll be glad to ship it to you, just let us have first shot at the first head.

Mark
Author:  slantzilla [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:21 am ]
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Rick, it did not ever get flowed that I know of. Pretty sure a couple guys offered to, but never got the chance.

Mark, that is what I have said, quit asking everyone's opinion and just build the damn thing. :D

There is a slight difference between a $400 set of rockers and a $3000 head though. :wink:
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