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Electronic Ignition System for Lorrie Van Haul
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49262		 Page 9 of 12
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:44 am ]
Post subject: 
AH!! Well now I see your confusion, about the wiring. THAT was partly my fault as well as the conversion thread. The two wires ON the connector and the TWO wires needed on the + side of the coil would cause trepidation. But as YOU have finally understood, that is NOT the case, due to using "The Big Three Ignition System Conversion Kit" Think you have it all straight in your mind now and the proceedings can go forward. Dont be dismayed IF the tach doesnt work, and also a thought occurred to me just now, You might run the wire for the tach but leave it disconnected when you first try to fire up Ms Lorries Mighty Slant Six Engine. If the tach is non functional, or shorted it COULD cause a no start situation. Will be one less item in the equation if problems arise in the beginning.

Hope YOU are having a great day.

And Reed the s/n ratio isnt QUITE that bad... :lol:
Author:  JCAllison [ Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey All,
Thursday Morning Update:

Am having to take a break.

Have to say that this part of the HEI Electronic Ignition System Conversion Caper is VERY nerve wracking. Am VERY tense, and anxious at the moment. Am not usually like this.

Started hooking up the HEI Unit this morning at 7:30 a.m.

Got the Grommets installed and Cyanoacrylate Glued in place.

Got the Wires threaded through them.

Got the proper Fittings attached to the Wire FROM Lorrie's Run Switch and the Wires TO the S-539 Socket/Pigtail.

Got the Wires connected to the PROPER Terminals on the Control Module.

Here are a couple of JPGs of what the installation looks like.

Image

Image

Have only the Fittings on the Wires FROM the "G" and "W" Terminals of the Control Module that go TO the Distributor to install, and then connect them to the Distributor Wires, and the installation will be complete except for connecting up the Black w/ Grey Booted MSD 8.5mm Ignition Coil TO Distributor Wire.

Will spend this afternoon fabricating the Black w/ Grey Booted MSD 8.5mm Spark Plug Wires.

Once the Spark Plug Wires are ready, will take the NKG ZFR5N Spark Plugs out and re-gap them to 0.045 and reinstall them.

Have to make sure that the Electronic Distributor is installed properly and bolted down.

Then will hook up the Spark Plug Wires, and Lorrie SHOULD be ready to rumble.

Am going to put the Battery on a trickle charge this evening so it will be fully charged in the morning.

Then tomorrow morning, we'll see if Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine will start and run.

The question is often asked: "Isn't this fun?" I have to say that this part of the Caper hasn't been particularly enjoyable. Maybe it will be the next time since I'll be experienced at doing it. BUT, this time... I'm flying BLIND, and having to "keep the faith" that it is all going to work out, and I'm not very good at doing that kind of thing.

The skies have clouded over, and looks like it may try to rain.

Will keep you all updated on developments.

JC
Author:  JCAllison [ Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
AH!! Well now I see your confusion, about the wiring. THAT was partly my fault as well as the conversion thread. The two wires ON the connector and the TWO wires needed on the + side of the coil would cause trepidation.
Hey Dusty.
Was assuming... You know what they say about what happens when you assume? It makes an ass out of you and ME! :)
Quote:
But as YOU have finally understood, that is NOT the case, due to using "The Big Three Ignition System Conversion Kit".
Have gotten it all hooked up PROPERLY. See the Thursday Morning Update just prior to this post.
Quote:
Think you have it all straight in your mind now and the proceedings can go forward. Don't be dismayed IF the tach doesn't work, and also a thought occurred to me just now, You might run the wire for the tach but leave it disconnected when you first try to fire up Ms Lorries Mighty Slant Six Engine. If the tach is non functional, or shorted it COULD cause a no start situation.
Alright. Good thinking.
Quote:
Will be one less item in the equation if problems arise in the beginning.
Right.
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Hope YOU are having a great day.
Am powering through a lot of angst and up-tight-ness this morning.

Am ready for a nap already.

Anyway, this too shall pass.

I'll hang in here, if YOU'LL hang in there.

JC
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Drum Roll PLEASE!!!?? or is it time for

Image

Or maybe just a little dash of

Image

?
Author:  JCAllison [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Drum Roll PLEASE!!!??
Hey Dusty,
With a cymbal crash at the end.
Quote:
or is it time for (hand grenade)?
No.

Came out to work on Lorrie at 7:30 a.m.

Had worked on my attitude, and was all set to just enjoy putting the Spark Plug Wires together.

Got the covers that go over the Spark Plug Tubes off of the OLD Spark Plug Wires and put them on six of the NEW MSD Spark Plug Wires.

First thing was to make sure that the Distributor was in the PROPER position.

It wasn't. Had to be moved one tooth Clockwise. Got it all positioned and then put in the Bolt to hold it in place, but not too tight.

Measured the Number One Cylinder's Spark Plug Wire by putting the Spark Plug Boot End on the Spark Plug and running the Wire to the Number One Terminal on the Distributor Cap.

Cut it to length and threaded it through the Boot. Used the Tool provided in the Wire Set to measure the length of the cut, and cut the Insulation off of the end of the Wire.

Installed the Fitting and crimped it into place using the Crimp Tool and a Vise.

Lubricated the Boot and Wire and pulled the Fitting into the Boot. It all went quite easily. Was off to a good start.

Tested the Wire and Fittings for continuity by measuring the Ohms of resistance. It had 36 Ohms. It's a GOOD Wire. It got installed.

Started on Cylinder Number Two's Spark Plug Wire.

Did everything just like before, but when the Fitting was to go into the Boot, something got hung up.

Worked for about an hour and a half, trying to get it to go, but only ended up pulling the Wire out of the Fitting.

So now there is a boogered Fitting. It's already been crimped. Fortunately the Wire Set is for a V8 and so there are extra fittings.

Had pulled on the Boot and the Wire so hard that now my hands of hurting.

Then all of a sudden, noticed that the Sun had peeked over the top of the house, and where all this work was being done was now in direct sunlight. Too hot to work there. Would have had a heat stroke in about ten minutes.

Had just enough time to gather up everything and bring it indoors, though there are a few tools still inside Lorrie.

Have done this Spark Plug Wire Fabrication operation once before, but don't remember it being THIS difficult.

Have to say that this whole MSD Spark Plug Wire System is REALLY handsome, but the fabrication procedure could be better designed.

The upshot of all of this was that not much got done this morning before it got too hot to be out working.
Quote:
Or maybe just a little dash of (A1)...

Well, this is TRYING to turn into an ordeal, but am NOT going to let THAT happen.

There has to be a better way to make these things up. The way MSD says to do it in the Instructions is DIFFICULT to say the least.

Am presently up for continuing to toil, so will give more details when as much of this has been done that doing more would be over-doing it.

Will keep you updated.

Later.

JC
Author:  Reed [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:04 am ]
Post subject: 
If you get tired of killing yourself fabricating the plug wires, see HERE, or, if you want thicker wires, see HERE.
Author:  JCAllison [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
If you get tired of killing yourself fabricating the plug wires
Hey Reed,
Actually, the MSD Spark Plug Fabrication Caper is finished.

All of the Wires, including the one from the Ignition Coil to the Distributor are all solidly in place.

Decided to try something different to see if it would work and wonder of wonders, it worked like a charm. :)

The Wire doesn't have to be threaded through the Boot FIRST, then the Fitting attached to the Wire's end, and then the Wire and the Fitting pulled back through the Boot.

What got done was: The Fitting was put on the end of the Wire and then the Fitting and the Wire were pushed into the Boot.

The Boot is soft enough that the LITTLE HEI Fitting went through it quite easily.

But the morning and afternoon of work has worn me out. Am just BUSHED!

Was going to take JPGs of this, but haven't yet.

Will have JPGs of all this later in the day when I'm a little more rested.

But, thanks for the ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION SUGGESTIONS.

Am hoping that everything is going to turn out to be alright. Will just have to wait and see.

Hope YOU are well.

JC
Author:  JCAllison [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey All,
Saturday Morning Update:

Took EACH Spark Plug Wire off of the Spark Plug and off its HEI Conversion Tower.

Put the Number Ring on EACH Wire at the Distributor End.

Removed EACH Spark Plug, re-gapped it to 0.045", and re-installed it.

Checked EACH Spark Plug Wire for continuity by measuring the Ohms of Resistance in each wire. EVERY Wire check in at less than 50 Ohms.

Here are some JPGs of Lorrie's mighty 225 Slant Six Engine's Ignition System:

This first one is a flash picture of the Distributor with the HEI Conversion Tower on it installed on Lorrie's Engine.

Image

This next JPG shows the Black w/ Grey Booted, MSD 8.50mm Spark Plug Wires installed. When fabricating the Wires, care was taken to make sure that the Fitting that connects to the Spark Plug had the molded "MSD" Logo facing up. This also dictated the position of the Distributor Fitting Boot so that when it was installed, there would be no twisted wires.

Image

This next JPG is a flash shot of Distributor with all the Wires connected. A little over exposed to help see all the details.

Image

And this next JPG is of the Distributor with all the Wires Connected, but done W/O Flash. This more what it looks like in person.

Image

So am just taking a break before going out and putting the Fittings on the ends of the Wires that come FROM the Electronic Distributor TO the "G" and "W" Fittings on the Control Module.

Once the Fittings are installed and the Wires Connected, Lorrie Van Haul's HEI Electronic Ignition System will hopefully be ready to Start&Run.

But there are still some things that need doing before THAT happens.

Want to trickle charge the Battery so that it is fully charged.

Want to clean everything out of Lorrie that doesn't belong there.

Want to check all the fluids.

Am planning on seeing if Lorrie will start tomorrow morning.

So all you guys... Predictions?

Anyone want to postulate on what's going to happen?

Will Lorrie Van Haul start right up?

Will Lorrie Van Haul just crank with no fire?

Will something go amiss?

We have done everything EXACTLY the way it was supposed to be done. We didn't skimp on ANYTHING. If there is a weak link in all of this, it is the Socket to HEI Conversion Towers, but they seem to be quite substantial.

So NOW we are in the countdown to Start Up. Even have a brand NEW can of Starting Fluid.

Lorrie has been sitting for six weeks and four days. Have her Valves stuck again? Will she bend her Push Rods Again?

Will Lorrie Van Haul decide to cooperate, or will she continue to be recalcitrant?

Only time will tell, and tomorrow is the day.

Will keep you all updated on developments.

Till then, suspend yourself at an interior location.

JC
Author:  Reed [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I say it will crank and start but you will need to fine tune the base timing.
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Hey All,
Saturday Morning Update:

Took EACH Spark Plug Wire off of the Spark Plug and off its HEI Conversion Tower.

Put the Number Ring on EACH Wire at the Distributor End.

Removed EACH Spark Plug, re-gapped it to 0.045", and re-installed it.
You are ahead of the game, I forgot to do that when i did my Lean Burn Delete on my big car, and ended up with issues later, and had to re-plug the 440.
Quote:

Checked EACH Spark Plug Wire for continuity by measuring the Ohms of Resistance in each wire. EVERY Wire check in at less than 50 Ohms.
Well at least we KNOW that the wires are functional.
Quote:

So am just taking a break before going out and putting the Fittings on the ends of the Wires that come FROM the Electronic Distributor TO the "G" and "W" Fittings on the Control Module.
Hope you made the connections easily reversible.
Quote:

Am planning on seeing if Lorrie will start tomorrow morning.

So all you guys... Predictions?
MY prediction? Do you really want it? :lol:

I say it will WANT to start, but not quite, BUT its an easy fix, Swap the two distributor wires. :wink:
Quote:
Anyone want to postulate on what's going to happen?

Will Lorrie Van Haul start right up?
See above and after wires are swapped it will.
Quote:

Will Lorrie Van Haul just crank with no fire?
No it will get some sort of fire, but will just be "out of phase" due to the wires being backwards leading to the dist.
Quote:

Will something go amiss?
No, other than what has been described above.
Quote:

We have done everything EXACTLY the way it was supposed to be done. We didn't skimp on ANYTHING. If there is a weak link in all of this, it is the Socket to HEI Conversion Towers, but they seem to be quite substantial.
As you should have, MY Pops always said he never has the time to RE-DO anything, so do it right, and to the best of ability the FIRST time.
Quote:

So NOW we are in the countdown to Start Up. Even have a brand NEW can of Starting Fluid.
Not going to need it.
Quote:

Lorrie has been sitting for six weeks and four days. Have her Valves stuck again? Will she bend her Push Rods Again?
Very doubtful, so I answer No.
Quote:

Will Lorrie Van Haul decide to cooperate, or will she continue to be recalcitrant?

Only time will tell, and tomorrow is the day.

Will keep you all updated on developments.

Till then, suspend yourself at an interior location.

JC
No she has gotten what she has wanted, and will be very cooperative this round. You teased the idea to her about a NEW Electronic Ignition, and you have GIVEN her the best components avail.

Hope YOU have a good rest of the day, and will keep waiting until the proof is in the pudding, no A-1 needed...
Author:  JCAllison [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I say it will crank and start but you will need to fine tune the base timing.
Hey Reed,
Remember when the Distributor was first installed, it was mentioned that it was turned all the way counter-clockwise?

To check the Distributor placement, it was carefully, and delicately lifted till the Gear that meshes with the Cam Shaft was high enough so that the Rotor would turn.

The Rotor was turned one tooth clockwise, and re-meshed with the Cam Gear. NOW, the Bolt Down Plate is sitting where the hole into which the Bolt goes is right in the middle of the Slot on the Bolt Down Plate.

That's exactly where the Slot on the Bolt down Plate was on Lorrie's OLD Distributor.

Am pretty confident that the timing isn't going to be VERY far off.

But it's going to take getting UNDER Lorrie with the Timing Light and see where the Timing Mark on the Damper is in relation to the NEW Timing Tab.

Read somewhere that not ALL Timing Lights will work with an HEI Ignition System.

Am hoping that the Timing Light here will work on Lorrie's HEI System.

Again, only time will tell.

BTW, thanks for the favorable prognostication. Hope YOU are right! :)

JC
Author:  JCAllison [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
You are ahead of the game, I forgot to do that when i did my Lean Burn Delete on my big car, and ended up with issues later, and had to re-plug the 440.
Hey Dusty,
It was because YOU were VERY emphatic about doing it that it got done.
Quote:
Well at least we KNOW that the wires are functional.
This is my second set of MSD Wires to fabricate. They came out quite nicely.
Quote:
Hope you made the connections easily reversible.
As a matter of fact, they are.
Quote:
MY prediction? Do you really want it? :lol:
For sure!
Quote:
I say it will WANT to start, but not quite, BUT its an easy fix, Swap the two distributor wires. :wink:
They aren't even hooked up yet. So what is the best way to choose which one goes where? Do you think that if we would "eenie meenie, miney, moe" it, that it would help?

Nonetheless, we have a 50/50 chance of it being right or wrong. It's a: "You pays your money, and you takes your choice" kind of thing.
Quote:
See above and after wires are swapped it will.
Why don't I just swap the wires to start with? :)
Quote:
No it will get some sort of fire, but will just be "out of phase" due to the wires being backwards leading to the dist.
YOU'RE a hard man Mr. OF! :)
Quote:
No, other than what has been described above.
You think that maybe going out and getting a Daisy, and then doing a "She WILL start, she WON'T start" while pulling off the petals, would help decide?
Quote:
As you should have, MY Pops always said he never has the time to RE-DO anything, so do it right, and to the best of ability the FIRST time.
Exactly. If you haven't got time to do it right, where will you find the time to do it again?
Quote:
Not going to need it.
But have it just in case.
Quote:
Very doubtful, so I answer No.
Especially hope you are RIGHT on this one.
Quote:
No she has gotten what she has wanted, and will be very cooperative this round. You teased the idea to her about a NEW Electronic Ignition, and you have GIVEN her the best components avail.
YES, but now what happens when she decides that she wants maybe a NEW turbo-charger, or dual Carburetors? Maybe the renovation caper has changed her from being a Patti Page to being a Lady Gaga! :)
Quote:
Hope YOU have a good rest of the day, and will keep waiting until the proof is in the pudding, no A-1 needed...
Am hoping to never see another piece of Mule Meat ever again in my lifetime.

Alas, everything that is on the agenda after Lorrie is finished (if in fact, she EVER gets finished) is laden with possible Mule Meat Eating situations.

One cannot let a little Mule Meat deter one. Mule Meat happens! Get used to it! Just keep the A1 handy. :)

Well, am going to shut down the Computer and go do the last two Wire Fitting installation, and hookup. Then will clean up Lorrie's interior and by then it will be too hot to be outside.

Will keep you updated.

JC
Author:  hantayo13 [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
As you should have, MY Pops always said he never has the time to RE-DO anything, so do it right, and to the best of ability the FIRST time.


Exactly. If you haven't got time to do it right, where will you find the time to do it again?

we do it nice because we do it twice LOL...was a sign we made doing construction,that ended up in restoration shop I worked in
Author:  JCAllison [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
We do it nice, because we do it twice! LOL...was a sign we made doing construction,that ended up in restoration shop I worked in
Hey Mr. H,
Don't know if you've been watching "The Renovation of Lorrie Van Haul Caper", but it has become an odyssey in which many of the things that were done were done time and time again till they were finally done right.

Inexperience played a big part in that, but after uninstalling and reinstalling the Intake&Exhaust Manifolds six time in the space of a week, have become quite experienced at doing it.

The same goes for all the other things what had to be done and done again.

But at some point, one gets experienced enough to design and then put together something like "The Big Three Ignition System" (Ford Ignition Coil, General Motors Control Module, and Mopar Electronic Distributor), and then install it to where it hopefully will work PROPERLY.

Am hoping that that will be the case with this FROM Points&Condenser TO HEI Electronic Ignition Conversion.

Will find out if it is going to work tomorrow morning after 8:00 a.m.

Will update here when something actual happens.

JC
Author:  hantayo13 [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
JC
I have been watching...waiting to hear "it's alive"...have been have same sort of luck wih my harley ultra...charges 14v at idle,increase engine speed drops to 8 v....just did the manifold thing 4 -6 times to get it right,even had to made a special wrench ...now engine sits about two inches forward of where it to be and wont slide together...good luck tomorrow
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