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New Slant EFI intake....
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53276		 Page 9 of 11
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:20 pm ]
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The log design plenum is really pretty basic and a tried and true design. One thing with my design that negates the plenum being part of the runner length is that inside the plenum, my runners extend into it filling the void of much of the plenum. So the length of the plenum isn't as much of a factor. I also like the side mount TB design, and am leaning more towards it because it doesn't impede some of the accessories mounted at the front of the engine.
Author:  the_engineers [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:36 pm ]
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I'll dig out the book again, but I would doubt that the runner entrance would be considered the plenum opening. With intake resonance, you're talking about timing a series of eddy currents that are bouncing back and forth.

There is nothing in the typical plenum to cause that bounce, other than the throttle blade.

As I stated in another post elsewhere, I still struggle with the value of tuning runner length. It happens at such a narrow point in the rpm band, and is so fickle in relation to minor design changes, that its hard to place a true value on it. It keeps getting brought up as an intake design criteria, so I figured it was worth adding a discussion point.

All things considered, I really like the design that you're working towards and hope that it's very successful.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:05 pm ]
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Brooks, nothing is etched in stone right now, and this is only a starting point. Once I do some flow simulations and some track testing, the final design may be 180° from where I started.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:35 am ]
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Quote:
I still struggle with the value of tuning runner length. It happens at such a narrow point in the rpm band, and is so fickle in relation to minor design changes, that its hard to place a true value on it. .
I think it is something to look into. Look at all the late model cars. Almost all have tuned intake length. Some even have more then one length, by way of switching the intake path. If it didn't have value the OEM's would not bother with it.

PS: Chrysler used intake tuning back in the early '60's on the 413 cross ram engines.
Author:  dartsport76 [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:16 am ]
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Quote:
Quote:
I still struggle with the value of tuning runner length. It happens at such a narrow point in the rpm band, and is so fickle in relation to minor design changes, that its hard to place a true value on it. .
I think it is something to look into. Look at all the late model cars. Almost all have tuned intake length. Some even have more then one length, by way of switching the intake path. If it didn't have value the OEM's would not bother with it.

PS: Chrysler used intake tuning back in the early '60's on the 413 cross ram engines.
The H-pak is tuned as well, isn't it?
Author:  pishta [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:03 pm ]
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Yes, the hyper pack was tuned, but it may also have been designed that way to equalize the runner length to a percentage. The crossed 'sonic ram' was tuned to one application while the 'short ram' was tuned to a higher rpm. Its tuned to the intake duration of the camshaft, I tried to get as close to 15.1" on my design IIRC. That's what the formula came up with on the 3 or 4th wave. 12.1 runner length and 3 intake port. Nothing wrong with coming in the side. 5.0 fords do that quite well. And coming over the valve cover would keep the exhaust heat at bay too.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:25 pm ]
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Not really an update on the EFI intake status, but more of an update to my toy arsenal. I recently got a 3D printer to help do prototyping of my many part designs before I make the casting patterns for them. My printer is capable of printing something as large as an entire 6 cylinder intake manifold and other parts of that length and size. The build bed is 16"x 16"x 9", or 22-5/8" across the diagonal. I can already see where I need to possibly add a second and maybe even a 3rd 3D printer just to fulfill the demand and prototyping volume I have. Here is a 3D model I created, and the Clifford intake I loosely based my design on and the sample 3D part I printed from it. All I can say is that everyone needs two or three of these laying around. There is no limit to what you can create with one.

Image

Image

Image
Author:  pishta [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:28 am ]
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wow, its an exciting world we live in! This 3D printing is amazing. I saw its infancy (stereo lithography) in college back in '91, it has really come along. Keep us (or me via PM) informed. My sis did solid modeling (Pro-E) for a living if there are any questions you have.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:49 am ]
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What is really amazing about this technology to me is how little information and interaction you actually have to give the software and printer to make it create the part once you have your 3D model made.
Author:  Reed [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:01 am ]
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Can you print an entire useable intake manifold? One made out of strong plastic hat is heat and chemical resistant enough to use on a car?
Author:  ProCycle [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:05 am ]
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Quote:
...I recently got a 3D printer to help do prototyping of my many part designs
What brand and model?
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:33 am ]
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Quote:
Can you print an entire useable intake manifold? One made out of strong plastic hat is heat and chemical resistant enough to use on a car?
Reed, ideally you can print a usable intake manifold with the right plastic. There are dozens of varieties available with ABS and PLA being the most popular. ABS is currently used by many automakers for parts in cars. Several car makers have plastic intake manifolds already, so if you could find out what plastic they use, you could also produce one as well. So if someone could research and find out what plastic they use for intake manifolds then I could see if its available for extrusion.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:40 am ]
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Quote:
Quote:
...I recently got a 3D printer to help do prototyping of my many part designs
What brand and model?
ProCycle, mine is a gmax 1.0 with a dual extruder. They do have a 1.5 version out now but with a 6-8 week delivery time, I opted to get this one because it was available immediately and I didn't have to wait. I am upgrading mine to use linear bed rails for better accuracy and more bed rigidity. Its fine as is for most things, but when you start moving the bed longer distances, this can compound error into your model and make it less accurate. All in all i'm very satisfied with this brand.
Author:  Pierre [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:51 am ]
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My 2012 Caliber uses plastic intake.

With the intake and exhaust ports so close together, that's going to have to be some really high temp plastic. May only work on crossflow heads.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:40 pm ]
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Thats a good point Pierre, also most all of the newer intake manifolds are the "dry" variety, and adding gasoline and/or methanol based fuels could be harmful to the wrong plastic. I know that acetone dissolves sensitive plastics such as ABS and PLA, but i'm not sure how these types react to gasoline products in a "wet" manifold design.
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