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windage tray
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15912		 Page 2 of 5
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:51 pm ]
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Dennis,

Do you run a windage tray (Mike's?) too, or just the scraper?

Lou
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:30 am ]
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Quote:
Quote:
Now, about the "shyt"...

Over the past two years I think I have sold about 15 sl6 scrapers in total -- worldwide 170/225 inclusive. That probably just barely covers the amount of time I spent in transporting engines and design.
Kevin, you must remember the context of the conversation. When I bought your scraper I did not know that Mike made them too. My comment has nothing to do with the price of your scraper. I feel it was worth the money even though it did require a lot of massaging to clear the crank and rods.

It appears to me that Mike would have sold me one for less. Since Mike helps sponsor my car I hope you can see his position.

He is putting your scraper back in my motor during the freshen-up too.

Mike thought yours looked good too by the way.
Ok. Thanks.
Author:  sick6 [ Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:22 pm ]
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okay, as I am not filmiliar with mike, and since from what I have read he probably isn't making any windage or scrapers....

kevin, what can you tell me about your business? can you point me to a website or something similar?

and just what is considered the average amount of mods needed to make a windage and scraper fit?

do you recommend just one or both? is one worth it without the other? or is the effect cumulative?
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
okay, as I am not filmiliar with mike, and since from what I have read he probably isn't making any windage or scrapers....

kevin, what can you tell me about your business? can you point me to a website or something similar?
Crank-scrapers.com
Author:  slantzilla [ Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:52 am ]
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Quote:



In my own testing on an economy car engine that already had a full windage tray the scraper still gave back an average 3% more hp at peak rpms of 5300. [Data over four pulls ranged from 2.5% to 3.5%] Horsepower and torque began diverging from stock at ~ 2750 rpm. And remember, this was on a steady state dyno that does not measure increases in inertial hp and torque. It was also on a car that was strapped down level and did not have any oil splashing around in the sump.



I don't make this stuff up as I go along.
3%@5300 rpm is all well and good, but what about at 2-3000 rpm where a typical street Slant spends the majority of it's operating time?

Kevin, are you the one with the Mirada Stocker? How is that coming along? Beautiful car BTW. :shock:
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
In my own testing on an economy car engine that already had a full windage tray the scraper still gave back an average 3% more hp at peak rpms of 5300. [Data over four pulls ranged from 2.5% to 3.5%] Horsepower and torque began diverging from stock at ~ 2750 rpm. And remember, this was on a steady state dyno that does not measure increases in inertial hp and torque. It was also on a car that was strapped down level and did not have any oil splashing around in the sump.



I don't make this stuff up as I go along.
3%@5300 rpm is all well and good, but what about at 2-3000 rpm where a typical street Slant spends the majority of it's operating time?
The slant six has a huge problem with mixing air into the oil when the car is in motion. You can check this by doing studies with the oil pans. [The rear sump truck one is the best that I have seen of the dozens (?? perhaps) of pans out there.]

This problem with aeration is so severe that Chrysler heavily modified the crank counterweights when they were getting into hydraulic lifters. They will not tolerate this.

A windage tray alone will not solve this. Chrysler has commonly used scrapers to help.
Author:  sick6 [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:21 pm ]
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I had a chance to briefly go over your website, and I was wondering, are your windage trays waterjet or laser cut?

I programmed and operated a cnc waterjet for four years before I went back into plastics.
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I had a chance to briefly go over your website, and I was wondering, are your windage trays waterjet or laser cut?

I programmed and operated a cnc waterjet for four years before I went back into plastics.
Cool. :)
Author:  sick6 [ Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:00 pm ]
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I have done CNC work for 12 years now, so I can understand the teething problems.

waterjets are incredible if you can afford them. you don't loose any tenstile strength (heat damage from cutting) and you can get a .020 kerf. I made more than a few things for my duster there in my free time before I was laid off by a heartless, coniving........@!%$$%%..... The problem you will run into is the intensifier, we ran at 55,000 psi and kept getting into trouble with the city for our waste water (still had too much garnet in it and was messing up the sewer).

anyway, what program are you using to import your designs? Currently I am working in a plastics shop, and I do all of the customers prototypes. sometimes we get in .pdf files and importing them into mastercam can turn the arcs into a thousand little lines instead of one smooth transition.

if you ever try a delta tau controller (pc based) use the DOS version! that windows version has way too many bugs and always hangs up, and gives you a ton of extra code so you have to go hunting through the NC to find out what went wrong.
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:20 am ]
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Quote:
I have done CNC work for 12 years now, so I can understand the teething problems.
Many of the controllers and much of the software have been redesigned in the years since I got it.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:05 am ]
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Gentelmen, This is very interesting, but is getting off topic for the engine forum. I will leave it this way for now, but if you wish further discussion along these lines, I will split the topic into a different forum. Just send me a PM, and let me know. Thanks.
Author:  65 dartman [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:20 am ]
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From reading the info on this thread, it would be worthwile to install my spare /6 windage tray in the motor that's going into my 65 Valiant convert. In looking at the tray it appears that it is attached in a similar fashion as a small block, i.e. special main bearing bolts with threaded holes in the head. Are these bolts readily available for the slant or will they be a problem to find? Can SB bolts be used instead?
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:34 am ]
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The hardware kit uses the same bolts as the small block. There are also hardened flat washers that go under the head of the bolts, (2 per bolt) to space them away from the crank, for tray to crank clearence. The bolts that come in the kit are longer then the slant six main bolts, so it is wise to make sure the bolts will not bottom out in the block. On my 170 with a shorter stroke, I did not use the washers, and had to shorten the bolts, so they would not bottom out. Make sure to use blue locktite on the 1/4 inch tray mounting bolts.
Author:  james longhurst [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:46 am ]
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as far as i know these bolts are still available new for a smallblock, but i think the slant kit is long gone. i used a set on a tray that i made from a '78 malibu doorskin but that was about 10 years ago. i've never done it, but you may be able to use arp studs for a smallblock that have extra threads for a windage tray, but you'd have to drill the holes in your tray oversize and modify it to fit. anyway, here is what the bolts look like.

-james
Image
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:40 am ]
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Acording to Summit Racing, the slant six windage tray attaching kit is still available. Has to be ordered P3690939. Price has almost doubled since the last one I got, at $66.95. This is the same part number listed for the "LA" windage tray kit.
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