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I want a through bolt idler arm on a '63 Valiant. Input?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17714		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  DionR [ Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:31 pm ]
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Difference in width is 1 1/2", not 1" like I thought.

Not sure how the centerlink is going to work out now. IIRC, the early centerlink sits on top, or above, the pitman and idler arms. The later one is below. If I'm correct, the tapered holes are going to taper the wrong way.

Two solutions. If the ball studs that bolt into the centerlink in the later setup are larger than the early setup, maybe I could machine the early centerlink to work the other way. Or, I take a later centerlink, section 1 1/2" out and have a quality welding shop reweld it.

Got the jig build to relocate the motor mounts last weekend.

K-frame is sandblasted and mark to be cut. Now I just need to find the time to turn it into tiny little pieces. :twisted:
Author:  DionR [ Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:19 pm ]
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Anybody recognize this? :twisted:

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Author:  DionR [ Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:58 am ]
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Anybody want to buy a jig? Only used once.

:D
Author:  DionR [ Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:09 pm ]
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Author:  DionR [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:46 pm ]
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Bet you guys thought I had given up on this. :lol:

Old k-frame is out and new one is in. 'Course, the old one came out Saturday on a nice day and the new one got hammered in on Sunday during the first big snow storm 'round here. God's garage maybe the biggest around, but it sure doesn't offer much protection from the elements. :roll:

Because I was in a hurry, I don't have all the info I wish I did, but I can say it fit. I had one bolt that was tougher to line up, but threaded in fine. Might have had something to do with the motor leaning and the k-frame not being square. My goal was just to get it in so I could get the front suspension back on and get it off the jack stands. The motor is coming out after that, and I don't have a set of spool mounts to use yet, so I wasn't all that concerned with getting the motor lined up and sitting right. Because of that, I am unclear if I have an interference issue between the oil pump and the motor mount/k-frame (didn't even think to look at that in the beginning). So far, looks like the early oil pan will work, which is good as I think I might have had an issue with the centerlink if I had to swap a later pan in.

So, best I can tell, this should work out ok. If the oil pump is interfering, mods should be minimal. Need to get a set of spool mounts and '69(?) idler arm, then I will know for sure.

Just wanted to post an update. :D
Author:  DionR [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:08 am ]
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:x :x :x :x :x :x

Information to be filed under: "Good to know YESTERDAY!!"

It appears that when Mopar made the Valiant wider, they also increased the wheel base 2". Most, if not all, of that was done in front of the firewall by moving the front suspension, steering and k-frame forward, while maintaining the same relationship between the motor and firewall. So, in the early A-Bodies, the motor sit farther forward in relation to the k-frame. Thus, my motor mounts are back too far!!! :x :x

It never even occurred to me that they would change the relationship. Aaarghhh!!!

I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:10 pm ]
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Thanks for the info, for future reference... Major bummer, but shouldn't be impossible to correct.

This is a perfect opportunity to rework your firewall and move the engine back 2". Good for weight distribution! :wink: :shock: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Lou
Author:  kesteb [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:14 pm ]
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I believe you have other more serious problems then this.

The mounting points for the upper and lower control arms did not change when they spread the frame rails. This means that cutting a 1 1/2" chunk of metal out of the middle of the K-member will not properly line up the LCAs with the rear mounting points for the T-bars. Thus, your T-bars will not be straight!

Remember, the 1965 TransAm was won by a Dodge Dart, with the same factory suspension that you are trying so hard to replace.
Author:  DionR [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:25 pm ]
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Quote:
Thanks for the info, for future reference...
Figured that maybe someone else will be saved the agony of doing something twice. :oops:
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This is a perfect opportunity to rework your firewall and move the engine back 2". Good for weight distribution!
Thought about that. I suppose that the '67 and later cars must inherently have better weight distribution, huh.

I'm going to try and find the silver lining and focus on the hope that because the torsion bar crossmember is 2" farther back also (based on the fact that all A-Bodies use the same length bar), I might not have to hack up the crossmember as much when I put the 5 speed in. :(
Author:  DionR [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:47 pm ]
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Quote:
The mounting points for the upper and lower control arms did not change when they spread the frame rails. This means that cutting a 1 1/2" chunk of metal out of the middle of the K-member will not properly line up the LCAs with the rear mounting points for the T-bars. Thus, your T-bars will not be straight!
Ok, and where where you when I asked if I was missing something. :lol:

Either way, I'm not sure I agree. I've got a '73 dart sitting right next to my '63 Valiant, and the UCA mounting points are identical. We're talking 3/4" of an inch each side, I think it would stand out.

This picture also leads me to believe otherwise.

I will try and take some measurements tonight while I am taking it out (probably during the same snow storm you were getting last night).
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Remember, the 1965 TransAm was won by a Dodge Dart, with the same factory suspension that you are trying so hard to replace.
Sure, and Civil War doctors saved plenty of lives with the medical technology they had then, but why stick with it if there is something better? :wink:

I'm not trying to bust your chops, and in the end I might regret even going down this road, but I thought I might be able to improve my car in a novel way without much money so I tried it. I'm not finished yet, but I will admit this isn't how I thought it would go. Who knows, I could very well end up with the factory k-frame back in the car.

But I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. :twisted:
Author:  DionR [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:48 am ]
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Quote:
...K-member will not properly line up the LCAs with the rear mounting points for the T-bars. Thus, your T-bars will not be straight!
Measurement was the same, per my calibrated eyeballs. 8)

I got about 23" center to center on the torsion bar crossmember and the new k-frame at the LCA mounts.

I think I am ok in that regard.

:D
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