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https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17924		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
What you may not know is that explaining why your declaration is faulty (Valiants are hubcentric) is done so that others wont be confused. Your questions and arguements can serve to either educate or confuse.
The trouble is when you refute perfectly valid declarations you confuse....forcing others to explain.

You may find your posts ignored if you refuse to accept simple declarations from those who know. I know my patience gets thin when I feel obligated to refute silly arguments.
Author:  tophat [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think most (not all) wheels are bolt centric, IF they have "taper" lugs or nuts. This means that when properly tightened, the taper of the nut, centers
the wheel, even if the center hole is very close in size to the hub, and yes it is quite possible for the wheels to "stick" on the hub. So why think about it if it is a tapered nut wheel? The biggest reason it will bite you is when it comes time to balance those new tires on the wheels. Since the wheel centers on the nuts, the center hole dont have to be "exactly" centered to the outter bead seat on the wheel. As long as it is big enough to clear the hub it works, and nobody really pays it much attention because it would only be noticeable when you were moving.

The point is if your center hole is NOT "centric" to the outside of the wheel, it can not be used to blalance the wheel with. Balance must either be done "on the car" or, with an adaptor for the balanceer that locates the wheel by the lug holes, seems to be a rare item at least around my area. For that matter I have not seen a working on the car balancer is 15 years atleast. most modern wheels are are "hub centric"as it relates to balance.

Some truly "hub centric wheels" would be 80s to 90s toyota alloys, nissan alloys, most "old school" alloys, like craggars. All of these wheels use "shank" nuts with washers, though there are wheels that center on the shanks, or even the washers for that matter. Mostly the old "multi fit" alloys, with slots insted of round holes centered on the washers and the shanks.

Very few cars that origanly used taper lug nuts, have hubs that are machined to close enough tolerance that the hub could "center" a wheel. The older the car, and the less expensive it was related to other cars of its day, the less likiy the hub register would be perfect. As long as the bolt circle and studs were perfect, and the holes in the wheel are too, the wheel will ride straight on the car. Well the bearing bores have to be perfect too.


I just had to chime in with my 2 cents worth

as always, no warrantys expressed or implied.

tophat
Author:  RossKinder [ Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
So why think about it if it is a tapered nut wheel?
tophat
I thought about it because, as I told Dan early in this thread, of the mentions I had read on the internet. So your reply is an expansion/explanation of what I read on the internet and considerably more helpful than, "and?" :)

We have some real talent here. (I even know about a couple things.) Whatever I read out there I always double check in here. If there's a conflict of information or a misunderstanding, most guys who know what they're doing will try to clear it up with reasons, details, viewpoints. :)

Tapered nuts. A useful rule of thumb. :)

You have a good way with words. Would you care to comment on something that occurs to me at this point? I was also reading about untapered nuts. It was said that these fit quite tightly in the holes on their wheels. But even if one had such nuts the old tapered holes in such thin material might be worn at the inner diameter and, therefore useless. At least in theory?

Thanks
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Ross, Have you ever heard of the "KISS" theory? I think you are making this harder/more complicated, then it needs to be.
Author:  RossKinder [ Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
What you may not know is that explaining why your declaration is faulty (Valiants are hubcentric) is done so that others wont be confused.
I said explanations are a good thing. :D

My declaration?

"My car seems to use the hub centric scheme."

"In every place I've read about it on the internet (a dozen or so) a close hub-to-wheel fit is the very definition of hub centric"

The reply to the latter was "And?" An explanation at that point would have been really great. :!: I've been thanking people who supply explanations. :)

Thanks
Author:  RossKinder [ Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Ross, Have you ever heard of the "KISS" theory? I think you are making this harder/more complicated, then it needs to be.
Maybe I'm too slow catching on. :(

But if it's holding my car on the road at lotsa MPH I don't want to buy the wrong thing. And the only way I know to be sure of that is know the subject. :D

But maybe you're right. Maybe it was best not to answer previous questions about hub-centricity. :o :shock:

Thanks
Author:  tophat [ Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:

Would you care to comment on something that occurs to me at this point? I was also reading about untapered nuts. It was said that these fit quite tightly in the holes on their wheels. But even if one had such nuts the old tapered holes in such thin material might be worn at the inner diameter and, therefore useless. At least in theory?

Thanks
If a wheel that was designed for taper nuts, is worn to the point that taper nuts wont properly tighten it, then it is worn out and needs to be replaced. Most shank type nuts do have a small taper at their tip. This is so you can TEMPORALY install a spare on a steel wheel if you have to. If driven long\hard you woild likely rip the center out of the wheels. There are no factory steel whells that I can think of that use a shank type nut. I do have a set of 30+ year old afermarket steel wheels that use real short shanks and washers.


BTW the only truly hubcentric wheel I can think of is some late 90s early 00s ford f150 trucks had alloy wheels with nuts made to the washer like a Dodge dualy. the only thing to center them was the hub.


:)
Author:  74.swinger [ Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:

Would you care to comment on something that occurs to me at this point? I was also reading about untapered nuts. It was said that these fit quite tightly in the holes on their wheels. But even if one had such nuts the old tapered holes in such thin material might be worn at the inner diameter and, therefore useless. At least in theory?

Thanks



BTW the only truly hubcentric wheel I can think of is some late 90s early 00s ford f150 trucks had alloy wheels with nuts made to the washer like a Dodge dualy. the only thing to center them was the hub.


:)
Yep and if you remember correctly fords brilliant engineers actually used a square cut rubber o ring on the hub to actually do the centering. I guess they figured a rubber o ring was machined bettr than their junk bearing hub.
This system had a ton of wheel offs when it first came out.
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