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Re-create a 225 car to get mid 30s gas mileage?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18106		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Sam Powell [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:46 pm ]
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I went to MPGresearch.com and surfed around a bit. I ended up buying an additive called Ethos fuel reformulator which had some pretty amazing endorcements. Among other things, the US Army uses it in HUM V's and China puts it in their buses. There are some very heady claims made. I have ordered a bottle, and will report back. I'll let you know if it is any good. They claim it is non-toxic. How they do that I don't know. It causes the fuel to burn more completely, thus giving cleaner exhaust and better mileage. One guy claimed his Toyota pickup truck which routinely gave him 22MPH on the highway, gave him 36MPG after putting this stuff in his tank. What's more, he said the oil stayed clean much longer. Sounds too good to be true. I will find out. I didn't figure $20 bucks was too much to waste.
Sam
Author:  Tim Keith [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:17 pm ]
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I think higher compression, EFI, and some computer control would do okay for a 225. I think the stock CR is kind of low. I don't know if the 198 rods in a 225 with 10.5 CR would increase real world torque as much as some claim, I think a 7" rod econo motor might be worth a try with the stock camshaft. This combination could produce a modest increase in mid range torque so that the economy gearing wouldn't be such a driveability penalty. The EFI would enable better fuel distribution than a carburator. I doubt that you'd ever get payback, but this is a hobby. My little 1.0 Suzuki G10 (Metro) motor has 9.5 CR, with my 1.3 Suzuki having nearly 11 CR. I think the slant six can tolerate higher compression than most of us run.

An early A body like a '62 would be lighter. I think a new Toyota Corolla weighs more than an early Valiant and those cars can get more than 40 MPG. I'd guess the Valiant could do very well for a 3.7 six when the total package were built for economy.
Author:  gmader [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:20 am ]
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Hi all,

Sam, I can testify to the fact that Army doesn't use this or anything in Humvees. I retired last year after 21 year, and they run straight JP fuel in a deployed environment, and commercial diesel in the US.

Heck, I couldn't even get real diesel fuel conditioners through the supply system to take care of the waxy junk or to lubricate the top ends of the diesel generators and vehicles that were under my control when I was in Bosnia. We were running the local (Italian?) brew there, and it was real bottom feeder stuff.

Sorry. I don't like being the buzz killer.

Greg
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  I agree...
Quote:
I can testify to the fact that Army doesn't use this or anything in Humvees. I retired last year after 21 year, and they run straight JP fuel in a deployed environment, and commercial diesel in the US.

I worked over in the sandbox and one of the mechanics units was stationed on our base after our company "let go" of the Hummer maintenance contract. I got to refuel at the same fuel point as the Army...they use JP fuel in their hummers (and it's murder on civilian trucks). I talked to a few mechanics in the defac, and they don't put anything out of the ordinary in the vehicles other than the usual stuff called out for by the manual from the appropriately stencilled green barrel.


FYI,

-D.Idiot
Author:  Sam Powell [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:53 am ]
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The claims are that Ethos is going in Humv's only in Iraque. I watched a Fox news clip that showed them taking their own 81 corolla to the emissions station, and checking it before and after putting the ethos in the gas tank. They did not check the gas mileage, but found that emmissions of unburned hydro carbons were reduced to zero with the Ethos. I'm still going to run my own test. I'm from Missouri, and we are the show me state you know. I'm not to proud to be wrong, and $20 isn't;t too much to spend to try something out. And I am certainly not too old to learn something, even if it is that it doesn't work. :( If I listened to every discouraging word from well meaning nay sayers, I would have gotten rid of this ancient old Dart years ago. :wink:
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Heh...mis-assumptions
Not US Soldier, US Civilian Contractor....


$20 isn't bad to try something new, although, you have to test it over a longer period of time to see what the results are on the average.


-D.Idiot
Author:  Doctor Dodge [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:03 am ]
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Let's not get side tracked... Please stay on topic... all ideas allowed... discussion is good... new topics should start in a new thread.

Soooo... What other ways can we improve MPG from a SL6 powered vehicle? :oops: :wink:
DD
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:33 pm ]
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Quote:
What other ways can we improve MPG from a SL6 powered vehicle?
I too am very interested in this topic since I am trying to figure out howw to get my 86 shorty van to pass the 10 MPG mark. I am already going to take out some of the seats, run aluminium rims, remove any extra bits like running boards, heavy bumpers, and the spare tire rack. Any more tips or tricks?
Author:  Sam Powell [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:17 pm ]
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How about putting an od 4 spd in that puppy? That will be a major help.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Heh...
Quote:
What other ways can we improve MPG from a SL6 powered vehicle?

Better tailored timing curve, with a way to supress detonation for that few extra degrees of timing at cruise?


-D.Idiot
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:25 pm ]
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I'm working on the timing curve, I plan on running a Holley 2305 staged two barrel(thanks agains Sam!), I also plan on adapting an A-500 four speed to the van via an A100 adapter plate (I have already sourced the plate, just need to find the tranny).

Sounds like I just need to spend some time tuning. In know that the 3.54 rear gears don't help, but the A500 ought to fix that.

Any more tips?
Author:  Sam Powell [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:30 pm ]
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What size tires on your van? Those gears might not be too bad with tall tires might net you something like 2.71's withstandard passenger tires. I think the standard pass tires are about 25" tall, which is 77.5 circumference. This translates to 907 revs per mile, or 907*2.7=2448.9 rpm at 60 MPH. What does your van turn at 60 MPH. Run the math and see. DI the supression of preignition is the idea behind water injection. It lets you run advanced cruise timing. Never tried it, only read about it. It seems like it would help some.
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:02 pm ]
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My van currently has 235/75s on it. I rarely have gotten the van up to 60 (right now the van has an overheating problem I have to fix). In the past I have had to turn the motor at 3500-4000 RPM to go 50-55 MPH. I have been told that this indicates a failed stator in the torque converter or a converter that is locking up prematurely.

I have looked into water injection and it looks interesting. Here are a few "how-to" pages I found. Here in the Northwest we gets all sorts of free non-potable water, so this might be something really worth looking into.

http://users.frii.com/maphill/wi.html

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_lib ... h/me3.html

http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/ ... n_Wizardry

http://www.key-ideas.com/2ndWaterInjection.htm

I am also considering adding an air dam on the front to reduce drag (since I am basically driving a cube with zero aerodynamics).
Author:  Sam Powell [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:38 pm ]
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I think your transmission might be where you losing the most. It seems like it is spinning way too fast. Measure how tall your tires are, and report back. I would be interested to do the math for you. They are likely 27" high or so. Why not go for the 4 speed thing. Is that possible with a van? I dont; even know. Maybe we should take this up on the transmission section.
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:12 pm ]
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Yes, four speeds are out there for vans, but I am too lazy to operate one! ;) I much prefer automatics, especially when driving up and down hills. I will check back on the tire diameter.
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