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Why does my Dart ride hard?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19555		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Jeb [ Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:39 am ]
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Those air shocks might have left you with a busted upper shock mount. Check it out.
Author:  Slanted Opinion [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:46 am ]
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After reading all the comments, and thinking about it over a few days, I believe my best course of action is to fix the rear suspension first. I'll replace the springs with 4 leaf, add some quality shock absorbers, and reset the torsion bars. Then we'll see what happens with the ride.

Question... While not going too wild (ala late 1970's mods) I would appreciate the rear of the car being slightly higher than the front. What is the best way to achieve this? Higher lift springs?

-Mac
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:06 am ]
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I can't imagine 4-leaf rather than 5-leaf springs improving the ride. They will tend to make the ride "busier", same as spindly torsion bars do.

I think the idea of bigger tires is an excellent one. IME, the ride with P205/70R14 tires, KYB shocks, 5-leaf rear springs and V8 torsion bars is a great deal quieter, smoother and better controlled than with the original 185/80R13 tires, 4-leaf springs, and 6-cylinder torsion bars.
Author:  Reed [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:36 am ]
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Quote:
I can't imagine 4-leaf rather than 5-leaf springs improving the ride. They will tend to make the ride "busier", same as spindly torsion bars do.
I recommended four-leaf springs as opposed to five-leaf because five-leaf springs typically are "heavy duty" and therefore "stiffer". A "softer" spring with a less-harsh set of shocks would combine to give a softer ride, which I thought was the goal.

If you are going to get a new set of springs, try and find a set that has isolaters (or are they called frictionplates?)between the leafs. This helps smooth out the ride and is one reason why F- and M-bodies have a softer ride than a-bodies. The F- and M- bodies had little pads in between the leaf srings which reduced friction and gave them a quieter rde as well as a softer ride because there was less friction between the rear leafs. You might be able to take your stock leaf springs to a spring shop and have them re-arched to whatever height you want and have isolaters installed at the same time.

While having the rear higher than the front may look cool, experts (like Tom Condran) claim that it can also mess up the steering geometry of the car. Probably the easiest way to do this would be to get your rear springs re-arch to a slightly higher height and to lower the front end by loosening torsion bars.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:59 pm ]
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Quote:
I recommended four-leaf springs as opposed to five-leaf because five-leaf springs typically are "heavy duty" and therefore "stiffer".
They can be, but aren't necessarily, and as I previously stated, going too far in the direction of "light-duty" components makes the ride jiggly and busy. And, you also have to watch out for making the suspension so "light-duty" that you easily bottom out on the suspension bumpers, which will definitely cause banging and crashing and harshness. Remember, the factory's priorities in setup were (1) cost, (2) cost, and (3) cost!
Quote:
If you are going to get a new set of springs, try and find a set that has isolaters (or are they called frictionplates?)between the leafs. This helps smooth out the ride and is one reason why F- and M-bodies have a softer ride than a-bodies.
The interleaf liners you refer to, made out of Zinc, plastic or rubber, were factory installed on many (or all?) A-body spring sets. Their job is to prevent squeaking, that's all. They do not help soften the ride or significantly reduce friction within the spring stack. The isolators you mention are not the same as the interleaf liners. Isolators are a part of the "Iso-Clamp" rear axle mounting system introduced on the F-bodies. There are rubber blocks isolating the rear axle from the spring stack. This reduces the transmission of road vibrations and undulations to the car body, but if you want to try to retrofit this to an earlier car, you have to get the whole setup, including the U-bolts, shock plates and clamps, isolators, etc.
Quote:
While having the rear higher than the front may look cool, experts (like Tom Condran) claim that it can also mess up the steering geometry of the car.
Condran is not an "expert" any more than you or I. He's just a writer. His book is known to contain many errors of fact and theory. That said, yes, overdoing it on the drop-front/raise-rear tactic can cause bizarre steering geometry effects. But you have to go to a fairly ridiculous extreme in order to cause handling problems.
Author:  Tim Keith [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:50 pm ]
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Other than being worn out, the suspension in my '64 Valiant is a strong point to the car. A review of a newer car will say that its harsh or noisy, it is as if they expect an automobile to not be a machine. Short of a BMW, I don't know of new cars that are remotely like a Valiant. If you want the A body to handle and a little noise is okay, you can still do okay with the ancient car. I saw a '66 Fury hardtop on a used car lot next to a clean BMW five series, the Mopar had a higher asking price and the C body was nothing so unusual for a '66, it had ratty upholstery.
Author:  Slanted Opinion [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:20 pm ]
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Thanks everyone for all your help and comments. I don't mind a stiffer ride that goes with improved handling. It's the banging and clunking that's really driving me crazy. My original hope was to go with KYB's and 5-leaf springs in the back. I may still do that.

As I say, my rear air shocks are flat... pump them up and they go down immediately (like, in seconds). So I think the rear end suspension rebuild will take me a long way towards less bang and better ride/handling.

-Mac
Author:  emsvitil [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:44 pm ]
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Maybe, just maybe it's the rear shocks...................

(take em off and see what happens....)
Author:  sethmcneil [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:22 pm ]
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Now I've ever Been In Your Car, But My First Car Was A 76 Dodge Aspen... In The Original Ads For The Car, Marketers Promoted "A BOULEVARD RIDE". This Was Acheved By The Use Of Rubber Biscuits Between The Fraimrails And K-Frame, As Well As Rubber Isolator Pads On Both Sides Of The Leaf Springs. During The First several Moths I Was Driving, This Boulevard Ride Simply Did Not Exsist; It Felt Like The Car Was Going To Fall Apart Due To This 'Crashing' Sensation When Encountered By These inconsistencies In Road Surfaces (I Live In A Pot-Hole Laden City As Well).

... No Your Car Does Not Have The Rubber Isolators; But It Is, Like Mine, An Aging machine; I Simply Went Through The Car And Gave Every Nut, Bolt, Screw, Whatever I Could Reach, A Nudge To The Righty Tighty. I Was Surprised To Find How Many Of The Parts Were Lose! Exhaust Heat Shields, Splash Shields On The Inside Of The Rotors, Dash Parts, All Kinds Of Misc. Stuff.

While This obviously Did Nothing To The Ride, It completely Eliminated The "Crashing" Sounds Which Deff. Were A Factor In The Perceived Ride.


Good Day
Seth
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