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Cold Air Intake
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21596		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Ron Parker [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tom is right i run a ram air setup on my car for this purpose. The denser the air it will make more hp. The cooler the air the better it will run. But it still aint going to get any more oxygen in to that engine. It might be more dense but you can not change the atomsphere. Still 78 percent nitrogen 21 percent oxygen. What you get is fresh cooler air into the intake it will not have no more oxygen. Thanks Ron Parker







Bagels On Juice Im On Boost
Author:  benevolance [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ron parker

To be exact

Air is made up of

78.084% oxygen
20.947% Nitrogen
0.934% Argon
0.033% Carbon Dioxide (green house gas?????)
and then there are 13 other elements that comprise the other .002% of air

Stuff like Ozone, Methane, Helium, Xenon, Nitrous Oxides, Sulfur Dioxides, Neon, Hydrogen Ammonia, Carbon monoxide and forget the other two off the top of my head...

Since you have an appreciation for the composition of air :)
Author:  GENT [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:06 pm ]
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All above is correct except the air/nitrogen #'s are backwards!
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:29 pm ]
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You do get more oxygen into the motor if it is colder. The percentages remain the same but you do get more oxygen and every other element too.
Author:  Tom Drake [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
cold air is denser than warm air ..... meaning that there is actually more air volume in a cold cubic foot then in a warm cubic foot... so you'd be delivering a greater volume of air into the engine.

The percentage of O2 stays the same (and so does everything else Nitrogen, Argon...etc) no matter what density the air is - but the amount in a given volume changes. SO if the air is colder and denser then you are delivering a higher amount of Oxygen(and all other components in air) to the engine. If there is excess (or unused) fuel present the motor now has more O2 to burn the extra fuel with and it will make.....more HP.
Quote:
The denser the air it will make more hp.
If the motor makes more HP with the same components then where is this extra HP coming from? Not thin air! Something is causing it to burn more fuel with the same components.

NOS has one purpose and one purpose only...to artificial supply the motor with more O2 than it would normally "inhale". If you provide this extra O2 with fuel it makes more HP. (It will also cool the intake charge which increase the volume.)

Boost provides the motor with a much higher volume of "air" than it could "inhale" normally. Provide this higher volume of air with fuel and you make more HP. Turbo's compress the air they pump and with this compression they heat the air.(hot air is not as dense as cooler air so the amount in a given volume decreases even though it is under pressure) Use an intercooler to cool the intake charge back down and they make even more HP because the cooler air is dense and has a greater amount of O2 in a given volume - providing the same motor with more O2 to burn more fuel.
10# of boost at 200 degree's inlet air temp does not have the same amount of oxygen than 10# at 85 degree's does...

Cold air is denser or heavier, if you prefer, so it contains more oxygen molecules per cubic inch. Still 21% but more of them so YES the cold air intake can deliver more oxygen to the motor.

OK my two fingers are tired and I am getting up early. You guys discuss it further... :lol:

Tom
Author:  Ron Parker [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Just remenber that fact about air from one of my firefighting classes. Thanks Ron Parker :D











Bagels On The Juice Im On The Boost
Author:  ROADRUNNER7169 [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 
well i was just mentioning this cuz i got the idea from porsche cuz they used it on some of their race engines i used it on a chevy 400 in a swamp buggy and i got alot of boost from it

but like i said i do not know exactly how this will effect slant six

(and i'm not talking about a little computer cooling fan i mean a big fan like a radiator fan and if you get one with narrow blades you can hook up a switch and turn it on when you need it and turn it off for around town driving)
Author:  emsvitil [ Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Getting Technical...........
No matter what the density of the air, the volume is constant.

The percentage of O2 in the air is constant (close enough for this discussion, it varies a tiny bit)

So when the density of the air is thin, you don't get less 'volume' of air (or O2) than when the density of the air is thick.


Higher air density means there's more molecules of air (and O2) packed within a given 'volume'. That's why cold air will give you more power (as well as being less likely for detonation to occur).

Carbs are volume sensors, that's why whwn going up in altitude the richer gets richer (same volume, less molecules (mass) of air).

The volume vs density problem is why EFI has Mass Airflow Sensors.


:lol:
Author:  Tom Drake [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:06 am ]
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Here is another example--- when you climb a mountain why do you get winded so quickly?? Your lungs are still breathing the same volume of air each time but you tire out more quickly?(same reason a car slows down at Denver)

Blow a balloon up in a 85 degree room carry it outside on a 45 degree night what happens to the balloon? Now reverse it fill a balloon up in 45 degre weather with 45 degree air and move it to an 85 degree room - what will happen? You have not decreased or increased the volume of air in the balloon but the same volume will now take up more or less space inside the balloon.

Tom
Author:  dakight [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:37 am ]
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There's a little confusion of terms here. The volume of air, measured in cubic inches - feet - centimeters - etc. Changes with temperature and pressure according some basic laws of physics. If air is compressed into a fixed volume its temperature and pressure rise to keep the equations balanced. The mass or wieght ( technically not the same thing but related ) of the air in a given volume or space determines the density of the air. Cold air has greater density which means that there are more molecules of Oxygen as well as the remaining inert components in that given volume of air. More oxygen means you can burn more hydrocarbon which in turn yields more energy.
Author:  Bren67Cuda904 [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am ]
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The volume of a balloon changes with temp because it is rubber. It the temp of the balloon changes the volume changes because it contained in a flexable vessel. Four values to consider. PSI, Volume, Density, Temp. The balloon for the most part will maintain the PSI. Cool the balloon and the PSI will drop some but not much. The size of the balloon will decrease greatly and therefor the volume also decreases. Size of the balloon and volume are directly connected. (proportionate) The same air is in there but now it has a much higher density. (same air in a smaller space)
In a fixed container like a metal can. Cool the can and the volume stays the same but the pressure goes down. The density stays the same its in the same size can. If we add more air to the cold can and bring the pressure back up to the precooled PSI the air now has a higher density for the given space and can do more work. (burn more fuel in the same space)
Author:  Tom Drake [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
the air now has a higher density for the given space and can do more work. (burn more fuel in the same space)


Correct and that is why cold air intakes deliver more oxygen to the motor!
Author:  slantvaliant [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:43 am ]
Post subject: 
pV=nRT, anyone? :wink:
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:56 am ]
Post subject: 
PERVERT!?
Author:  panic [ Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:32 am ]
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technically not the same thing but related

They're only different if you leave this planet.
Otherwise, mass (in slugs) = weight (in lbs.) / 32.174 (1 G acceleration on Earth = 32.174 f/s/s).
On our moon, mass = weight / 5.32 (1 G lunar gravity).
The mass remains constant regardless of weight.
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