Slant Six Forum
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alloy head poll
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21767		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  slantzilla [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:51 am ]
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Quote:
If you really, really want an aluminum head, PM Dart270.
Guys, IF YOU REALLY, REALLY, WANT AN ALUMINUM HEAD-PM DART270.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Author:  Tom Drake [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:24 am ]
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The gentleman that does our engine work does alot of the ford and chevy 6's that race at Bowman Gray stadium.

He did an aluminum head for the ford six that was 2 halves bolted together. He said it was easier and cheaper. Total head finished ended up in the $600-700 dollar range complete. He indicated he could do it for a slant 6 as well.

Why not try this route first??? Sounds easier and cheaper than anything anyone has proposed.

Tom
Author:  GENT [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
If you really, really want an aluminum head, PM Dart270.
Guys, IF YOU REALLY, REALLY, WANT AN ALUMINUM HEAD-PM DART270.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I tried,he has still not replied to my p.m!


I am in for the Indy head if it includes everything mentioned above! Also you should ask them how much it would be if we could only get say 30 people in on this?
Author:  gmader [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:56 am ]
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Word is that Lou is traveling. He may not be able to respond until he gets back.
Author:  slantzilla [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:45 am ]
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I gaurantee that monkeys will fly out of your butt before you get anything from Indy.

I will not say what Lou is up to, but there is an incredibly serious aluminum head deal going on right now. :shock:
Author:  panic [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:01 pm ]
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He indicated he could do it for a slant 6 as well?

I think that was the Ford "big" (240/300) 6, where the bore centers are only .10" away from the donor - a 302 Windsor (4.48 vs. 4.38"). He also got a head that needs a completely fabricated intake manifold, since the port sizes and locations are different, and is now cross-flow so it needs a fabricated exhaust.

Which non-cross-flow aluminum V8 head with the same bore centers as the /6 did you have in mind?

Let me offer something actually constructive (since complete nonsense like Jaguar and Supra DOHC etc. have been suggested (the Supra bore centers are about 93mm or 3.66" - about 3/8" too close - each).
The biggest problem to adapting an existing product is the bore center distance. The /6 is not "regular" with alternate 3.98", 4.00", 3.98", 4.00", etc. but if the new head (for example 4.08") is close the error can be calculated and its effects estimated.
Centering the #3 & 4 cylinders for minimal effect means that each of these 2 is only off by 1/2 of the difference: 4.08" - 3.98" = .1, or .050" offset.
The next pair out has .080" (4.08" - 4.00") + the previous .050" or .130". The end pairs another .100" (4.08" - 3.98") + the previous or .230". This means that the end chamber are mis-placed towards the end of the block by almost 1/4", which may require bore notching even with std. valves etc.

Here's the slant bore locations (adapted from the on-site picture, thanks) compared to a 4.08" center to clarify:
Image
Author:  panic [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:17 pm ]
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What's my point?
That the Australian Ford "250-2V" aluminum replacement head is nearly ready for sale. Don't know if it's feasible, but you can use a Ford head gasket to check bolts, water, etc.
It's a miniature Cleveland head with inclined valves, high-ratio rockers, and cross-flow.

Image

You can also get the original 1980-1992? aluminum 250-2V head used from Oz.
Author:  Tom Drake [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
think that was the Ford "big" (240/300) 6, where the bore centers are only .10" away from the donor - a 302 Windsor (4.48 vs. 4.38"). He also got a head that needs a completely fabricated intake manifold, since the port sizes and locations are different, and is now cross-flow so it needs a fabricated exhaust.
Used all stock parts and did not need anything special to fit. I have seen the heads and know of guys running them.

He started with two blocks of aluminum and cut the head out of them.(combustion chambers and bottom of intake ports on one half - top of intake port and rocker arms...etc on the top half) There was no donor head. He starts with a clean slate and cut out both the top and bottom half and then uses the head studs to bolt them together.


Tom
Author:  panic [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:50 am ]
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That would make the water jackets a little bit trickey.
Author:  Tom Drake [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:49 am ]
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He indicated they were pretty easy and did not need to be as large as stock cast iron heads because of how easily the aluminum transferred heat.

He has been doing these head for years and unfortunately retired last December. Otherwise I would be working with him to make one.

Tom
Author:  panic [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:39 am ]
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I think I can visualize it, once I got the horizontal slice in focus.
Since the joint is only exposed to water pressure (25 psi max?) the upper and lower can seal pretty well.
I know there's a cross-over point where the cost per unit becomes lower with Method A than Method B (that was the reason the 1st Corvette body was fiberglass - cheaper to build molds than stamping dies if you only make a few hundred).
It seems to me that a CAD/CAM program to make a limited number from 2 pieces of commercial plate (6061? good strength, weldable, cheap) has huge advantages over a casting, because minor changes can be made without starting from square one. Some of the dims are known (port locations, bore position, bolt position, water transfer), and some can be done as an afterthought such as larger intake ports, the cross-wise position of the rocker shaft to allow adapting a different high ratio rocker as long as it ends up above the tappet and the stem, etc.
There need be only 1 chamber design since it's just reversed.
Author:  panic [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:58 am ]
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Rocker example: a high ratio rocker now simply moves the short lever closer to the shaft, which limits the distance before the pushrod hits, and creates an unfavorable angle between the pushrod and the tappet. The long lever's length is fixed by the distance from the shaft to the stem.
For example (not real numbers), if the old rocker were 2.5" (1" pushrod to shaft, 1.5" shaft to stem = 1.5:1), the short lever is reduced by 1/16" to make the length 2.4375". The pushrod lever is .9375", the stem lever is still 1.500", ratio is 1.6:1.
If the shaft were moved towards the tappet side by relocating the shaft bosses a new rocker with the same length could have the levers in better proportion and keep the pushrod vertical to the tappet axis:
For example (not real numbers), if the old rocker were 2.5" (1" pushrod to shaft, 1.5" shaft to stem = 1.5:1), the new lever is still 2.5" but with the shaft moved over .100". The pushrod lever is .900", the stem lever is 1.600", ratio is 1.778:1. I have no idea whether there are shaft-mounted rockers of the right length (and there are other important variables) but it's worth examining. Even the shaft diameter is not critical as long as it's a common size.
Author:  Tom Drake [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:43 am ]
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You could even move the spark plug closer to the exhaust valve to aid in a better burn pattern. Create a squish area...etc. Changes would be alot easier with this method rather than a casting.

He has one head at his shop. I will try to go by one day and take some pictures of it. Really neat way of doing an aluminum head.

Tom
Author:  1966 dart wagon [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:41 pm ]
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Im really liking this idea... i wanna go slant lol
Author:  mopardemon71 [ Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:23 pm ]
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Well sorry I haven't been here sooner but life happens :? . Russell said he would deal with me and I'm thinking of away to make sure no one gets ripped off. He asked for the money up front(dont leave yet)so to know there is a market and money for his co. investment in the tooling. Im not great with the bizz end but maybe Doc could help to figure this out. Oh and the 30 people number will cost those guys 2000. per head. Russell said 60,000 for the head.
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