We're getting kind of far afield of the "engine" topic but there's another side to this road tax issue. Road taxes, state and federal, are the primary source of revenue for building and maintaining highway infrastructure. We all want to drive on modern, well maintained roads but that won't happen if we don't pay the taxes. Without road taxes, or fuel excise taxes, wahtever you want to call them, we will see a lot more bridges falling into rivers. The pure and simple truth of the matter is that people who drive on public roads using untaxed fuel are stealing from law abiding citizens who pay their fair share of taxes.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

There was 2 slants running alcohol in Bowling green in the slant race. One had a toilet bowl injector set up. The other was blown and injected.

I guess alcohol is cheaper than race gas. Just probably burn more.

Maybe they change oil a lot? Alcohol contaminates it?

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'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

I can't imagine having your fuel checked in what was a gasoline passenger car, unless you publish what you are doing. They really don't even have equipment if the field for this.

With diesel it is fairly common for heavy trucks to have the fuel checked, just like they check for smoke sometimes. The untaxed fuel available for farm equipment is a different color. It is a big fine if you get caught. I have heard of quite a few people with farm equipment and their own filling station running untaxed fuel in their pickups too. Actually it would only seem right when they are on the property.

A farm plate is good for that I am sure. You can still buy #2 high sulfur down the street. Off road only!

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'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

NAZI is probably an inaccurate term. I've picked it up from Rush...you know, the "femi-nazi" term he coined to describe militant feminist nags. Jack booted state thugs may be more appropriate here. In any case they were government-ordained hit men making sure that everyone toes the tax line. There WILL be no exceptions...everyone MUST pay their tax. If you don't believe it, try not paying yours. Davey

And also this: It's NOT an urban legend, it happened. Just a couple of months ago. You could google it and read it for yourself. And, for the slow people in the class, I am not advocating against rightly paying our taxes for road and infrastructure upkeep. Obviously we have to do that. It's just that the government gets so much of what we make now and wastes it. And mis-spends it. I dare say that when all the facts are in, we'll find that the recent interstate bridge collapse in Minnesota wasn't about lack of funds. It was more likely about apathetic and neglectful bureaucrats and mis-spent funds. I don't say taxes as a concept are wrong, but there is definitely a lot wrong with the way they're collected and spent in this country. Period. I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin. Davey

Well, for those who are so much smarter than I - you figure out how we're going to pay for roads without the taxes. And you figure out how the taxes are going to be collected if we don't look for cheaters. And whe you get it all figured how let me know, would you? Call me slow if you like but those are the cold, hard facts, like it or not. Damn, that condescending attitude pisses me off! All right, I'm done now.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

The poor seem to have a way of making there dollar stretch, because they have to. The rich, not so much. When I was poor every dollar counted. Now I am not rich, but not poor either and money alot of the time gets wasted.
I say we make the government poor and likely get the same level of service.

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67Cuda,FAST EZEFI,340cu,CR=10.25,RollerCam&Rocker (XR268HR,#20-810-9)(#1622-16)(EddyRPM#60779,#7576), (MSD6AL,#6425) A904, GearVendorsOD, 8 1/4,3.55:1, ClassicAir

Yes, it is done quite offen here in the corn belt.
My brother has a E85 powered Mustang drag car and other than the fact that we go through almost twice as much fuel as we did on the petro it has worked great. He just bought that green carb that Quick Fuel Technologies is selling and the cunsumption is getting under control and the fuel curve is more consistant.
I do the paint and body for a local stock car racer and he is running E98 (pure ethanol). He can do it because the rules say he has to run pump gas. Since E85 is availible everywhere and they cant check the content it's all good. If I remember right it is around 115,120 octane.
In both cases, the engine runs very cool. My brother can make laps all day long and has to warm up the car for a long time before he makes a pass.
My /6 build is still under way. I am collecting the parts needed for a E85 fueled EFI turbo. Like it was said earlier, to make it effecient I need to build as much static compression as possible. The MegaSquirt EFI has the ability to use a Ethanol sensor so as the fuel changes for the seasons (low of E70, High of E85) the fuel system will change with it.

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Chris'
Autobody
Restoration
Service

Thank you Chris. I would like to follow your progress. Do you plan on documenting it?

I am thinking more along the lines of a conversion for my commuter car. So compression would have to be set up for both ethanol and gasoline.

I understand that cold engines can lead to some drivability issues in the slant, so maybe my experiment will be a total bust. I haven't even built my still yet. Just mulling things over in my head right now.

Of course the first order of business is to get the old 66 running at all!

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-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!

Yes, I will put it in the Gallery once I collect all the parts.
I decided to use an extra engine for all the mock-up purposes so that I can still enjoy the Dart as it is. Thank God, because I am not finding enough time and money to get the fuely conversion done. (heck, all of the subsaties will be up and the cost will be too high by the time I get this done if I don't start working on it more!)

Another great source of info can be found at www.e85forum.com

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Chris'
Autobody
Restoration
Service

maybe chris saw this in the local paper (star tribune) awhile back-

but there was a guy (in zimmerman, I think) that was running on veggie/fry/waste oil from local burger joints. he got the oil for free from them because the buger joints had to normally pay to have it hauled away, and this guy would take it for free (anyone who has ever worked in food service knows that emptying the fryer is the worst, nastiest job available). the local (local-independant-small-town) paper did a story on how inventive and eco-conscience he was. the county folks saw the paper story, and sent him a bill for a few grand for not paying his taxes through gas purchases for the highway use.

nice. gotta love that minnesota attitude.

So I have to agree with some of the opinions already expressed, go for it but keep it hidden.

I was reeeeealy trying to avoid this whole fuel tax conversation as it doesn't apply to my posted question, but our gov't really pisses me off.

Anything they can do to seperate you from a few more dollars.

My effective tax rate = 30% or so
John Kerry's (billionaire) effective tax rate = 12%

Something aint right. Time for a flat tax!

%$*#%!!!!

Ok, done now

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-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!

Before you decide to go ahead, give some thought to the mods you'll need for physical compatibility with alcohol fuel:

-A new fuel tank, made out of stainless steel or high-grade plastic (not made for any vehicle that came with a slant-6; this'd be a custom deal)

-All new fuel lines made out of stainless steel

-A new fuel pump that'll handle 85% ethanol (not made in the mechanical style pump the slant uses; you'd probably wind up with an electric pump)

-An extensively reworked carburetor, with all castings electrochemically coated for extreme corrosion resistance, equipped with much larger jets, and assembled with soft parts proof against high concentrations of alcohol (sounds like you might already have a line on such a carb...wonder if it's small enough to work reasonably well on a slant.)

-A very large, stainless steel fuel filter proof against high concentrations of alcohol

Then, think about energy content: E85 contains only 83,263 BTU per gallon, while gasoline contains 114,132 BTU per gallon. This is why the jets in the carburetor must be larger. For any given task (getting you a certain distance at a certain speed), in any given engine, fuel economy will drop by about 30%. If you use pure ethanol, energy content is 66,143 BTU/gallon, dropping your fuel economy by 42% compared to gasoline.

Of course, ethanol has a much higher octane rating than gasoline, so higher compression could be used to gain back some of the lost efficiency. But, doing so would lock you into using only E85, which you've already said you don't want to do.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Dan this is very helpful.

I was invisioning a secondary fuel system with a trunk mounted cell and elec. fuel pump. It would have it's own set of lines that would run to the engine compartment and be wraped around some sort of heating coil.

Then when a batch of ethanol was ready for use, the proceedure would be to remove the gasoline carb. bolt up the alch. carb. Swaping fuel lines of course and going for an exprimental ride

So far so good. I am having doubts about the compression ratio though. As I read more, it sounds like I really need to up the fuel mixture and compress it very well.

Thanks again for the comments. I'll keep reading and researching!

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-76 Cordoba, 360 4bbl
-68 Valiant, 273 2bbl
-67 Dart /6 4bbl, Leaning Tower of Power!!!