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Block Cleaning (Paging Doc and Dart270)
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Author:  gmader [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I am trying it right now, and I have one shortcut not to try, and one that may be working.

Don't use 1.5 inch rubber sink stoppers, and lots of Silicone sealer in the freeze plug holes. It doesn't work. Thankfully, it is only a drip, not a stream of acid.

The silicone sealer in all the holes in the deck seem to be holding nicely. I will check in the morning.
Author:  gmader [ Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:55 am ]
Post subject: 
I dumped some baking soda on the drip areas of the cheap drain plugs, and it seems to be holding now. It formed some sort of crust that is plugged up the drips.

Question for Doc: How do you drain the acid out? Do you open the freeze plugs from top to bottom, and hope for a controlled drain, or do you open the bottom, and have some sort of spout to direct the flow? I am trying to keep the mess down to a minimum.

Thanks,
Author:  Doc [ Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 
I learned to pre-install a fitting / drain hose into the tapped water drain plug hole in the side of the block, near the oil filter's location. Another tip is to set the block up so it is off the ground by a foot or 2 so you can use gravity to drain the solution into plastic jugs.

My guess is that you need a 'plan B'... which is to slip a long, clear plastic hose into the block and start a syphon to get the acid out.
A clear hose is key... and keep the hose off the bottom of the jacket to start, then, slowley push it down lower into the solution while watching the flow thru the hose... there is a lot of muck down at the bottom that you will see as you get into it. That stuff can clog the hose so you want to stay out of it until most of the acid is drained-out.
DD
Author:  Volare4life [ Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
So always add acid to water, but how much water should i initially fill the block with before I add the acid ?

How long should I let it soak ?

Should I use muriatic or hydroflouric ?

Do you just dump baking soda into the block or do you make a liquid solution out of it and fiil the block ? do you let it soak for a while ?

-Mike
Author:  66aCUDA [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Muriatic 20% straight (from Home Depot or Lowes)
Leave in about 48 hours
I use a baking soda solution 1 lb to 2 gals water and let soak for 2 hours
Hope this is what you were looking for.
Frank
Author:  rock [ Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  There are better neutralizers than baking soda
First, I am amazed a consumer HF product is available. It has an affinity for calcium and follows the calcium ions at nerve synapses right down to the bone and then eats up the bone. It is not stoppable or reversible. I use it in my lab to digest quartz so I can use a lab instrument to measure amounts of other ions left in the resulting solution (Quartz seldom being pure). You need teflon clothes, faceguard, tongs and "glassware" to handle the stuff. I wouldn't get near it outside a lab, but each to his or her own. Although I did put it on a cockroach once to see what would happen.....and nothing did.

What people call "muriatic acid" works too well not to use. But there are better neutralizers than baking soda. I don't use baking soda because the possibility of a residue is about 100 percent. Try household ammonia or other compounds with "ammonium xyz". Heck, try household ammonia on your corroded battery part to get a feel for the reaction rate, and just as with baking soda, don't let it in the battery cells!

I also like to flush and stabilize with phosphoric acid. See how nice and clean Doc's block was? If you stabilize the clean ferrous metal with phosphate it won't oxidize nearly as swiftly as if you just hit the metal with water again. Admittedly phosphoric acid is nasty, but about on the order of battery acid (sulfuric acid) and none of us would blink at handling battery acid because familiarity breeds contempt, as they say.

rock
'64d100
Author:  Volare4life [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks frank for the info,

So Rock ammonia is a better "flush" than baking soda, why ? What kind of residue are you talking about ?


-Mike
Author:  rock [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re. flushing and ammonia
I pondered this some more after seeing your question. Both ole Dart and I are physical chemists and as they say, a lttle knowledge is dangerous. I was thinking of ammonium hydroxide, because it is such a good base (as in bases neutralize acids). Of course, sodium hydroxide (lye) is a fine base too and is pretty readily available.

But the more I think of it unless you can calculate volume and concentration of the ions involved, it may be safer to just use baking soda. My objection to it is the white residue of a carbonate that will be left and may form little pellets to block the holes you just tried to clean. But if you truly flush, and flush with hot water some, you should be able to remove most of the residue. Plus the water you put back in will cycle between air temp and maybe 200 degrees F, so the residue will gradually be bound up in the water solution.

I plead guilty to being too thorough and likely worrying about an unlikely problem. I recognize the danger of prescribing something that may or may not apply to all cases thereby perhaps causing someone to hurt themselves, so if you don't "do" chemistry stick to baking soda. But man, I wouldn't go to HF products outside an industrial or lab environment.

rock
'64d100
Author:  66aCUDA [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Rock
Thanks for the clarification. I would not have thought of a strong base. I use the 20% Muratic acid and baking soda as a recomendation cause its fairly safe. When I do my acid cleaning I have a face shield, gloves, apron and boots etc. ( some may think this foolish however if you have been chemicaly burned you remember). I also use a lot stronger stuff.
Frank :oops:
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