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Timing Tab
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32171		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Reed [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Probably what has happened is the outer ring of the vibration dampener has slipped. That is why he should just put the cylinder at TDC by hand and make a new mark and ignore ther old one.
Author:  6shotvanner [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yup on that Reed, also it's not a virgin motor and who knows what has been mixed/matched by PO.Also I bet with a pair of gloves on you could reach down there and turn motor over by grabing onto the balancer and inching it around since the head is off,worth a try.
Author:  63dartdude [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Okay, where I get the 1100 position is - when I tried to time it at the 0200 position, the car dies. I could get my car to start by putting the timing mark in the 1100 position, and having the rotor at cylinder one. With that, I always had the impression, my timing tab is in the incorrect position. What stuck me to that was this:

Image

In this photo, Fopar is looking at the timing on Wicked Six's car. Note that he looks to be looking at a tab located in the 1100 position. Now please, someone tell me I am not crazy by thinking the tab should be at the 1100 position.

Bottom line, he uses the timing light standing on the passenger side of the car. That is where I should be doing it, based on what I see. Don't most of you look in the same area Fopar seems to be looking. What am I missing here?
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Uh...late car...repeat...late car timing cover...
Quote:
Don't most of you look in the same area Fopar seems to be looking. What am I missing here?
that would be normal for those of us with late cars as the timing tab is spotwelded to that side of the cover... if you have an early cover with the bolt on timing tab... you step across to the battery tray and read it there...
this assumes that the damper and the style of cover still match... (if you used a 1970's damper and the early bolt on tab... you would not be able to make anything jive... ) At this point if you want to read it on the passenger side, get a cover off a late car, bolt it on and remark your damper.

-D.idiot
Author:  63dartdude [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
See, that is what I don't know about the car. We bought it about 5 years ago, and the guy said it was just rebuilt. If I buy a water temp sending unit, I have to ask for a 71 Dodge truck, to get the right one. A 63 Dart doesn't get it. So I know the head is newer than 63. One could assume the block would be the same. But I have no idea why the guy who rebuilt this put the timing tab on the driver side, when it looks like it belongs where Mopar is looking.

I'm still thinking, if I find true TDC, I can remark my damper at the 0200 timing tab. And just time it from there.

Does that sound good?
Author:  THOR [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
If I buy a water temp sending unit, I have to ask for a 71 Dodge truck, to get the right one. A 63 Dart doesn't get it. So I know the head is newer than 63.
Could be I am wrong here, but I thought all the '63-'74/'75 drool tube heads were the same.

~THOR~
Author:  Reed [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Like has been said above, different year slant sixers had the timing tab in different places. Later slant sixes had the timing tab on the passenger side of the motor, earlier slant sixes had the timing tab on the driver's side of the motor.

Also, you have to match the dampener with the tab location.

It looks like you have the early dampener and I know you have the earlier timing tab. You should be looking at the "2:00" position.

My advice is the same- put the tab back on and then mark the new timing mark by hand.
Author:  63dartdude [ Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Concerning the sending unit, if I go to the Kragen website, and ask for a water temp sending unit for my 63 Dart, it gives me part number TS25071, which is a lot bigger than part number TS25051. That last part number says it fits darts from 1967 to 1976. So my head has to be one of those years.

Tomorrow I will get that bolt, and find TDC, then mark my damper to match up with the 0200 timing tab. I think that will be the easiest thing to do. And then I can put this car back together again. Thanks.
Author:  HyperValiant [ Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Early,early slants actually had the timing marks stamped into the passenger side of the timing chain cover.Both my 60Val and 63 Dart have them stamped on a small crescent shaped bump on the pass. side of the timing cover and my factory 1960 Valiant service manual confirms this.
I have changed mine to driver side bolt on timing tabs just because its easier for my old eyes to see.I did this by gutting an old spark plug and welding a 1/4 inch rod in it a inch or so long and the grinding a ball shape on the end to keep from nicking a piston.Then I pulled all the plugs and installed my homemade piston stop(the modified spark plug) and bolt on timing tab and then GENTLY turned the engine by hand clockwise till I hit the piston stop and marked the balancer,the turned the engine the opposte direction till I hit the stop again and made another mark,directly between those two marks is my new tdc mark that i cut in the balancer with a thin cutoff wheel and highlighted with white paint.
Hope this helps
HyperValiant
Author:  Doc [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like the engine has a 60 - 67 timing chain cover (bolt-on tab viewed from the driver's side) combined with a later (68 and up) damper. The 68 and up t. chain covers had a timing tab spot welded to the cover and viewed from the passenger side.

As already noted, the damper could have slipped and if that is the case, it will need to be rebuilt or replaced or it will just keep moving and that will drive you crazy.

One point... TDC is TDC on the crank and damper, do not worry about what stroke cycle you are on. When the mark lines-up to zero, the #1 (and #6) pistons should be at the top of their bores. The positive piston stop method is the best way to check and confirm true TDC.

If you need a known good cover and matching damper, send me a PM.
DD
Author:  Reed [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
One point... TDC is TDC on the crank and damper, do not worry about what stroke cycle you are on. When the mark lines-up to zero, the #1 (and #6) pistons should be at the top of there bores.
True. I was just pointing that out so he didn't think his timing was way off based on where the rotor was pointed.
Author:  63dartdude [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Today I put in the bolt, and that really helped me turn the engine. I really want to thank everyone. Now I see exactly how to find TDC. I watched as I turned the engine, and I could see where the intake would have been open. As the piston went all the way down, I could see where it was closing. As it came back on top - THERE IT WAS. And my rotor was sitting on number one, like it should be. So my timing probably wasn't too far off. I marked next to the 0200 bolt tab at 0. And I could see the original one, is sitting at 1100, where I expected it to. So I will live with that. But I believe this problem is over. Now I am working on putting it all back together. And I see what other problems I will make, trying to do that. I probably won't have it back together until this weekend. Maybe later, knowing my luck.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wellll, not to "dampen" your spirits (sorry, couldn't resist), but if your old timing mark is pointing at 11:00 then you either have the wrong dampener for your tab or your dampener has slipped pretty badly. You can run the motor as is, but after a few months I would double check to see that your timing mark hasn't slipped again. If it hasn't slipped, great, run what you have. If it has slipped, then I would recommend replacing the dampener and the timing chain cover with a later one that lets you press the oil seal in from the front.
Author:  Doc [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 11:00 TDC mark position matches what you see on the 68 & up style dampers.
DD
Author:  63dartdude [ Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, that is what I have been saying from the get go. I have the wrong timing cover. I actually marked two things. One, the damper was marked for the 0200 timing tab. I also painted on the valve cover, at the 1100 position. Once I run it awhile, I will notice if it is slipping. But I doubt that is the case. As for all this time, I have seen I can't time to the timing tab at 0200 with the current timing mark. As it always was at 1100. So I had no way to measure it. Now with it matching the 0200 tab, I don't see why it won't matter. With the new marks, I should be good in my mind.

And with the timing mark sitting at 1100, that tells me nothing slipped. If at true TDC it was at noon, I would wonder.
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