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Got a newish ND alternator--How do I make it work?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32521		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:11 pm ]
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When your hooking up the later regulator - your taking the top pin to ignition right, not the side one? It doesn't matter which field wire is which at the alternator, but it does matter which wire goes to ignition.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:43 am ]
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We are changing the alternator, not the regulator. I am going to try an adjustable regulator, to see if that will cure the problem.
Author:  Pierre [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:59 am ]
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I just can't help but think if the adjustable regulator works its covering up something not fixing the root cause.

I still have my nippondenso alternator and stock napa replacment regulator. That setup never reached 15s on the car. I almost feel like hooking it up just for giggles now for re-proving the concept. Or at least I can measure the field winding resistance.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:19 am ]
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Quote:
I just can't help but think if the adjustable regulator works its covering up something not fixing the root cause.
I have the same sneaking suspicion. But what could be the root cause...? About the only thing I can think of is voltage drop upstream of the voltage regulator, which would cause the regulator to see less-than-actual line voltage and try to increase the voltage to attain what it would see as normal line voltage, which would in fact be too high. This could actually make some sense; it's entirely plausible that the wiring upstream of the regulator could be adequate for the lower current draw of the early alternator's rotor, but would drop too much voltage with the higher current draw of the later alternator's rotor.

Seems to me a diagnostic check could be made by unplugging the voltage regulator's connector, getting two 16ga test leads with alligator clips on each end, connecting one test lead from alternator B+ or battery (+) to the regulator's I terminal (top of triangle), connecting the other test lead from the regulator's F terminal (side of triangle) to the alternator field terminal with the green wire attached, starting the car and looking at the voltage. If it's normal, either go through and find/fix the source of excessive resistance, or add a field loads relay triggered by ignition-on 12v. Come to think of it, such a field loads relay was factory equipment on many Mopars with big alternators...
Author:  gmader [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:42 pm ]
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I can try that test, but I have an old time-y two wire voltage regulator ( actually a new, transistorized VR, but in the two wire configuration), and a grounded second field wire at the Alt.

Is there any difference with this setup?
Author:  emsvitil [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:44 pm ]
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Quote:
I can try that test, but I have an old time-y two wire voltage regulator ( actually a new, transistorized VR, but in the two wire configuration), and a grounded second field wire at the Alt.

Is there any difference with this setup?
That probably makes it easier.

Before you add wires for testing, check the voltage on both terminals of the VR...........
Author:  gmader [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:17 pm ]
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Quote:
Seems to me a diagnostic check could be made by unplugging the voltage regulator's connector, getting two 16ga test leads with alligator clips on each end, connecting one test lead from alternator B+ or battery (+) to the regulator's I terminal (top of triangle), connecting the other test lead from the regulator's F terminal (side of triangle) to the alternator field terminal with the green wire attached, starting the car and looking at the voltage. If it's normal, either go through and find/fix the source of excessive resistance, or add a field loads relay triggered by ignition-on 12v. Come to think of it, such a field loads relay was factory equipment on many Mopars with big alternators...
Two questions:
1. What should "normal" voltage be in this test?

2. what is a Field Loads relay?

Thanks,

Greg
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:58 pm ]
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I have an old time-y two wire voltage regulator ( actually a new, transistorized VR, but in the two wire configuration)
Oh, okay...which (brand and model) transistorised regulator are you running? Some are better than others.
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Is there any difference with this setup?
Not really...one test lead between battery (+) or alternator B+ and the regulator's "IGN" terminal (the ring terminal held onto the regulator with a nut or screw), and another test lead between the regulator's "FLD" terminal and the ungrounded field terminal on the alternator. Remove the original wires and tape off the regulator IGN wire before you attach the test leads.
Quote:
What should "normal" voltage be in this test?
Normal charging system voltage of between 13.5 and 14.5 volts or so, depending on ambient temperature (colder = higher voltage) and battery state of charge.
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what is a Field Loads relay?
It is a relay which, when closed by ignition-on voltage, completes the electrical path to the alternator's field terminal. If I'm not mistaken, they were used only with the '70-up electronic regulator.
Author:  gmader [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:00 pm ]
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Quote:
What should "normal" voltage be in this test?


Normal charging system voltage of between 13.5 and 14.5 volts or so, depending on ambient temperature (colder = higher voltage) and battery state of charge.
Sorry, I meant at the Voltage regulator, where we are testing, not at the battery. Is it the same?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:06 pm ]
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Oh...that wasn't part of the test I had in mind, but what you'd want to do there is start the engine, put your voltmeter's positive lead on the battery positive terminal, and your voltmeter's negative lead on the regulator's "IGN" terminal, and see what the voltmeter reads. You'd do this with the stock wires all hooked up, and then with the test leads hooked up.
Author:  gmader [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:33 pm ]
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The regulator looks like an Airtex 1v1067
http://www.airtexengmgmt.com/pdf/pin_outs/1V1067.pdf
Author:  gmader [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:16 pm ]
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Quote:
put your voltmeter's positive lead on the battery positive terminal, and your voltmeter's negative lead on the regulator's "IGN" terminal, and see what the voltmeter reads. You'd do this with the stock wires all hooked up, and then with the test leads hooked up.
Test #1, cold engine (probably around 40 degrees F)
15.2 volts.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:18 pm ]
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I connected the voltmeter between the + field terminal on the alt and the battery +, only had about .1 volt drop. That will test all the wireing in the field circuit, except the - side. The voltage drop on that side was less then .1 volt.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:20 pm ]
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Quote:
Quote:
put your voltmeter's positive lead on the battery positive terminal, and your voltmeter's negative lead on the regulator's "IGN" terminal, and see what the voltmeter reads. You'd do this with the stock wires all hooked up, and then with the test leads hooked up.
Test #1, cold engine (probably around 40 degrees F)
15.2 volts.
That's not right, should be just tenths of a volt. ideal would be zero
Author:  gmader [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:48 pm ]
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Different temp and time when I did it from the other day. I am doing more tests, and will give a better report shortly.

G
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